Opinions on Krim Shield Please

[herman]

Hi All;

Any opinions on this Krim Shield would be appreciated. It is non-magnetic. Thanks in advance!

[Pascal H.]

Original so called Deumer type shield.

Kr
Pascal

[Tim B.]

Hi Herman,

Interesting shield, do you actually own it? If so, could you take another shot of the front-straight on, so we can really see the details of the upper half and eagle's head.

As Pascal has already stated, a Deumer shield. Interesting to me, as it appears to be an earlier pattern shield with the flatter-shaped head (top) and the shield appears to made out of zinc.

I see the "Peter" die-flaw. Interesting coloration, almost looks more golden in color, than bronze. Anything you can tell us about this one?

Thanks for showing it!
Tim

[herman]

Tim and Pascal-

Thank you for the replies!

Yes, I own it and will take another picture to post later tonight (?).

I know virtually nothing about it - It was a recent e-stand purchase along with some other medals.

thanks again!

[herman]

Hi-

Another picture as requested. Any more info would be appreciated.

Thank you!

[Tim B.]

Hi Herman,

Thanks for posting that PIC. I have seen a few of these "flatter head" varieties and all appear to be made from zinc. IMO, these are not as common as the versions with the worn, more rounded head.

Does anyone have one (or PIC's of one) that is made from sheet iron (magnetic)?

Tim

[Tiff97]

Hi Tim
This second type by Deumer
I have never seen this type of magnetic
only zinc
KR Andrei
PS-the first type and second type have a common defect,(Peter has shown)

[Tim B.]

[quote=Tiff97;4159185]Hi Tim
This second type by Deumer
I have never seen this type of magnetic
only zinc
KR Andrei
PS-the first type and second type have a common defect,(Peter has shown)[/quote]

Hello Andrei

If you're referring to the die flaw (shown below), this one has it as well, or at least is starting to IMO.

I still don't agree this is the second pattern by Deumer.

Tim

[pantherv]

Hi Herman,

Thanks for posting that PIC. I have seen a few of these "flatter head" varieties and all appear to be made from zinc. IMO, these are not as common as the versions with the worn, more rounded head.

Does anyone have one (or PIC's of one) that is made from sheet iron (magnetic)?

Tim

Hi Tim...here's a comparison between the 1st and 2nd type Deumers. Magnetic/sheet metal and Zinc.

[pantherv]

......

What's interesting is why the 2nd type still has the die flaw/mark in the same area as Andrei has pointed out.

[Tim B.]

What's interesting is why the 2nd type still has the die flaw/mark in the same area as Andrei has pointed out.

Quick correction for the record; Andrei didn't point out any die flaws, I did.

We had this discussion before and I am still waiting to see if the type shield Herman shows ever came in other metals besides zinc. And, I still do not see how a shield with a worn, rounded head, could have come before a shield that has more definition in this area.

We talked about master dies before but we never really got anywhere with just four people discussing this over on GMIC. Same general die characteristics, apparent similar flaw, but the base metal and head details leave questions.

Tim

[Tiff97]

Hi Tim
Tomorrow I'll buy a new scanner
I will do all my 6 shields by Deumer
There was interesting information, I'll do the scans and we will discuss all
How about to see the second type Doumer - magnetic?
I think I found it
KR Andrei

[Tiff97]

Now I can say exactly
Doumer second type, were made of zinc and magnetic
I have a zinc and magnetic shields by Deumer second type,
first type Deumer as there is zinc and magnetic
KR Andrei

[pantherv]

Quick correction for the record; Andrei didn't point out any die flaws, I did.

Apologies Tim...that's what happens when you skip through postings...

I don't think there's any way these two shields came from the same die.

Andrei...get that scanner plugged in mate...I can't wait to see this magnetic 2nd type.

[Tim B.]

Well, it will be interesting to see where this goes. I tend to agree that both of these shields probably did not come from the same die and a reworked die seems unlikely in all honesty, as the details do not appear "re-worked" in any specific area on either shield.

We know these shields numbered in the thousands and were manufactured by several companies. Each qualifying member received at least three for uniform wear, so overall production would be sufficient for die wear IMO.

We previously discussed (@ GMIC) the possibility of a company having more than the "lion's share" on certain items and that we see more Deumer shields on the market today when compared to other makers, such as Maedicke, so perhaps Deumer did have more than one production die in order to fill order totals. So, at this point, IMO:

- IF both the "flat-head" and "round-head" style shields both have the same die flaw, and it appears very likely at this point, and...

- IF Andrei shows us both styles in zinc and sheet-steel, (non-magnetic and magnetic), then...

I might really support the idea of a master die that had this flaw and it was carried over to any production dies used for both versions.

It might also support the idea that both zinc and steel were used simultaneously, or at least that both metals were used to some extent such as a trial basis to check for long-term wear. Not sure yet, let's see what Andrei has to show.

Tim