Opinions ? Narvik Shield W backing

[SweSA]

Intressing discussion for shure.

No one know it all and have all the facts.
But in every field of this hobby there are some people that have more knowlage then the rest of us.

When it comes to the different shields and especially the Narvik, there are one person here among us that i fully respect for his knowlage about these.
In fact, i would buy any object whit out second thoughts if they was "blessed" by him, simple as that.

Who am i talking about?
Pascal Huysmans.


Best Regards
Ståle Andresen

A very interesting thread about a shield what always has been controversial to most of us.

I presume I'm right when I say that this controversy was started by the "Fake of Week" picture as posted by Detlev many years ago.
What now if Detlev was wrong? The guy is only human and although he has a great knowledge of German Awards he too can make a mistake. I know he did in the past and to his credit he was always the first to admit.

I will post a shield which was sold a couple of years ago but AFTER the "Fake of the week" picture by Detlev.

Until today I am still not convinced that the shield in "Fake of the week" was indeed a copy. It is my opinion that the shield as sold by Detlev as well as the shield by LH600 are original.

KR
Pascal

[Pascal H.]

Thank you for your kind words Ståle.
Believe me, I still make mistakes and also have a lot to learn.

Here is what I believe is the same type of shield from my collection.

KR
Pascal

[LH 600]

Hi pascal.
Many thanks for the new fresh picture of a Shield same type from your collection.

I have study the Shield 4 ours today. ( free day from job ) and i can say if this is a fake it must be a very extreeme highly made copy in my eyes.

All opinions are welcomed.

Regards LH

[pantherv]

.........

Nice shield Pascal..plenty of BM showing through there...so I take it this is the same type/maker as in post #13 left side. Possibly an earlier strike when you consider the one I posted (along with other examples) are still in there LDO cello bags.

Great thread BTW

[Tim B.]

Hi Guys!

Yes, I do believe there are in fact original shields of this type and if you compare closely, they usually have finer, sharper details. I have shown examples of these over the years since returning mine and tried to show how much better they were when compared to the one I returned.

I remain convinced that the one I returned was in fact a copy of an original for the reasons I spelled out in the first thread back in 2003/2004. Since that time, I have seen a handful of others, always near mint with the same flat details and suspected they too are copies of an original shield.

When I returned my shield, Frank Huekemes had a chance to hand inspect it and was undecided as well. There were traits he liked and some he didn't. The dealer took it back and eventually resold it. I'll post that second PIC he put up after he relisted it. You can see the shield is in fact the same exact shield, but has either been played with or the lighting really makes it look different; it is the same.

Detlev has business and personal friends in his circle and would not publically comment on the shield, but told me in the last email I sent him (2004?) that he would not personally want it in his collection. That said it all for me. True, everybody makes mistakes and can never get everything right and the ultimate decision to return the shield rested solely with me. I don't regret getting rid of it and IMO, this one remains questionable and one all shield collectors have to be aware of.

As far as LH600's shield, I can't and will not say for sure, but I did want to point out these types are out there and IMO, so are high quality fakes of it.

I think that says what I want to say here. Good luck on it if you deceide to keep it!
Tim

[Pascal H.]

Nice shield Pascal..plenty of BM showing through there...so I take it this is the same type/maker as in post #13 left side. Possibly an earlier strike when you consider the one I posted (along with other examples) are still in there LDO cello bags.

Great thread BTW

Hi Peter,

I don't think the type LH600 and I posted are the same type as you posted.
I think there are too many differences between these shield.

The shield you posted the (as far as I know) the only until today which you find which is made, beside zinc, also in Iron sheet (magnetic).

The make matters weven more complicated the shield I posted you can also find in 2 different types. However the differences are so small that I think these were made by the same maker.

KR
Pascal

[Pascal H.]

Hi Guys!

Yes, I do believe there are in fact original shields of this type and if you compare closely, they usually have finer, sharper details. I have shown examples of these over the years since returning mine and tried to show how much better they were when compared to the one I returned.

I remain convinced that the one I returned was in fact a copy of an original for the reasons I spelled out in the first thread back in 2003/2004. Since that time, I have seen a handful of others, always near mint with the same flat details and suspected they too are copies of an original shield.

When I returned my shield, Frank Huekemes had a chance to hand inspect it and was undecided as well. There were traits he liked and some he didn't. The dealer took it back and eventually resold it. I'll post that second PIC he put up after he relisted it. You can see the shield is in fact the same exact shield, but has either been played with or the lighting really makes it look different; it is the same.

Detlev has business and personal friends in his circle and would not publically comment on the shield, but told me in the last email I sent him (2004?) that he would not personally want it in his collection. That said it all for me. True, everybody makes mistakes and can never get everything right and the ultimate decision to return the shield rested solely with me. I don't regret getting rid of it and IMO, this one remains questionable and one all shield collectors have to be aware of.

As far as LH600's shield, I can't and will not say for sure, but I did want to point out these types are out there and IMO, so are high quality fakes of it.

I think that says what I want to say here. Good luck on it if you deceide to keep it!
Tim

Hi Tim,
You're a very knowledgeable collector and you certainly know your business when it comes to shields. When you say that the shield you personally owned and examined was a fake shield, a copy of the original type as shown by me then I believe you immediatly.

This means that very high end fakes are out there which are almost undetectable on pictures and one has to inspect them personally.

Until today I think I could always tell the originals from the fakes but this shield is something else.

Over the years this shield was always controversial and mostly because you always referred to the shield you once owned and your are absolutely right to do. One has to be aware that this shield is a controversial shield on which jury is still out.

KR
Pascal

[LH 600]

Hi Pascal.

So this shield i posted pics of is classified as an Orginal ?

I have zoomed up pics and there is small differences in details.
My shield have also small marks after use and small tiny scratches in front. But the best inspection is by holding it in hand for sure.

Pascal `` can you put your shield on a weigth ?

I came back soon with weigth of my shield.


Thanks Tim also for the great input here. You have a great knowledge. But there is minor details from your shield you return like the shield i have and Pascal.

Regards LH

[LH 600]

Pascal.
I have now the weight on my Narvik in "gram"

The shield is 26 gram include the backing.

LH

[Tim B.]

Hi Guys,

Well, 99% of my knowledge comes from forums like this one, and the members that openly discuss items. We all gain from our collective experiences and lose when the discussions go no further than finding out how much something is worth.

Anyway, the construction on my shield and the way it was mounted had raised questions even before Detlev has posted the "copy of the week", that was only a confirmation of my concerns as it was exactly as described in his description as well.

Be careful on using weight as anything more than a general guide, as it dosen't take much to make differences on these, especially when adding cloth, paper, material of the shields, backplates, etc.

Tim

[LH 600]

I deliver this Narvik Shield back to the owner today.

I cant live with a not classified shield in my collection. If i sells in future, no one will buy it.

The hunt for a new Narvik Shield is already begun

Thanks to all for making this tread valuable.

LH

[AndyC]

Its good thinking here, if you dont have the right feeling about a award let it be.
As you say before its harder to sell if its not 100% textbook.
But dont forgett that it exist variations of original shields that we dont know 100% yet.

Andy

[LH 600]

Thanks Andy

I speak with the owner today of the shield by phone.

He may destroy it he said. One shield less . Its not mine shield anyway. I just have it here for opinions.

LH

[Pascal H.]

Thanks Andy

I speak with the owner today of the shield by phone.

He may destroy it he said. One shield less . Its not mine shield anyway. I just have it here for opinions.

LH

Please let me add that I would love to inspect this shield personally.

I could make some high end scan and pictures. Make accurate measurements which I then could post on this forum for further reference.

After which the shield could still be destroyed (or not of course......).

KR
Pascal

[LH 600]

Thank you for your kind words Ståle.
Believe me, I still make mistakes and also have a lot to learn.

Here is what I believe is the same type of shield from my collection.

KR
Pascal

Here is for compare again..
Thay are identic .
LH







Here is another from Norway.
Direktly from the family who own this.
Pics is taken out of a newspaper. That reason not so good picture.
But its the same type type pictured above.
Study the details.

LH