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Helmut Weitze

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    #1

    Krim Shield

    Hello eveyone,
    I picked this up recently and would like to know your opinions. Sorry for the bad pic´s
    I think it´s a good one...



    Thanks in advance.
    Tags: None
    #2
    back

    Comment

      #3
      Nobody? Are the pic´s too bad?

      Comment

        #4
        Krim

        Hi Christian......The shield looks original and looks the same as this one below......period shield.....unknown maker......

        KR...........Peter
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          thank you

          Comment

            #6
            Mogdala,

            I personally would like to see better PICS of this piece. It looks close, but to get a realistic opinion you need to provide better PICS.


            Peter,

            Your shield is interesting. Keep in mind that there are originals of this style shield by a yet unidentified maker, but there are also fakes of this type that were close, commonly referred to as one with a helmet. Those fakes had subtle differences but were easily identifiable if you knew what to look for.

            Now, I am not saying your shield is fake, but it is possible that you have a more up to date fake that has corrected some of these mistakes made on earlier fakes; or you have a different version. Personally, I would be careful with your piece. You need to look carefully at the date numerals on the right, specifically the "9" and the "4".
            Tim

            Comment

              #7
              Hhm ok here is a better pic:

              Comment

                #8
                Mogdala,

                Yes, I like what I see so far. Do look carefully at the background areas and ensure the pebbling is not in fact small indentations. Here's a couple close-ups for comparison.
                Tim
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #9
                  .
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Thank you Tim, also for the detail pic´s.
                    Christian

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                      #11
                      Christian,

                      No problem, now just carefully clean that polish off with a toothpick or soft toothbrush.
                      Tim

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Normally, I don't like to do this as it only improves the faker's knowledge, but lets face facts here, we have fakers visiting this site everyday and they are only improving there wares. Eventually, they will get it right.

                        But, we also need to show the good members what to look out for and watch how the fakes are progressing. So, I'll leave it to the administrators to weed out the bad guys and continue to help the good guys as much as I can.

                        I think this example by Peter above is a next generation of the helmet fake. You can see they corrected the head, but the numbers are still wrong. Here's a comparison below. There are still other little things to see, but IMO, this fake is getting better.

                        Maybe I'm wrong here, if so please correct me.
                        Tim

                        Compare the date numbers here. An original on top and Peter's shield on the bottom:
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Peter,

                          Your shield is interesting. Keep in mind that there are originals of this style shield by a yet unidentified maker, but there are also fakes of this type that were close, commonly referred to as one with a helmet. Those fakes had subtle differences but were easily identifiable if you knew what to look for.

                          Now, I am not saying your shield is fake, but it is possible that you have a more up to date fake that has corrected some of these mistakes made on earlier fakes; or you have a different version. Personally, I would be careful with your piece. You need to look carefully at the date numerals on the right, specifically the "9" and the "4".
                          Tim[/QUOTE]


                          Hi Tim.......just read your post above and after checking the shield under a loupe I think you may be right. The surface isn't pebbled but indented and the date numbers are slightly off compared to yours.
                          I'd like to hear what Pascal thinks.......still, if it's wrong, thats another lesson learnt and another shield that can go back to the dealers

                          KR...........Peter

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Hi Peter,

                            Yes, I was hesitant to post further until you had a chance to respond first, but with the time zone differences thought I better get some information out and let you see what concerned me with your piece.

                            If you search past threads on this shield, I think they show the indentations on the fake's surface and you can see the difference right away.

                            If you have Sascha Weber's book on Krim shields (still copies for sale if you don't), he has an original on page 44 and a copy on page 88. The copy is the first generation, or helmet fake, and has been around for awhile now. If you look at this one in the book, you'll see they have a plain backround (no pebbling) and no lines inside the eagle's wings. This was the first attempt.

                            Since then, they have corrected the background, but the pebbling was still wrong. Now, I see the wings have been corrected as well as the head (no helmet). So, our "friends" are still watching and learning from our forums unfortunately. But there are other things still amiss with this one and I won't say more until they invest more time and money to get it right.

                            What made me more convinced this was in fact a newer attempt of the same fake and not a variety of an original shield were the numbers I called out above as they are the same on the fake shown in Weber's book.

                            Anyway, we can wait for Pascal to see what he says, but IMO your shield is a newer version of a reproduction shield by this maker. Sorry for the bad news my friend.

                            R,
                            Tim

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Also, the original has small 9/big 9 while the shield in question has big 9/small 9..

                              Talking about the O part of the 9..

                              Jos.

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