CHOLM shield opinions

[Gene]

Howard,

I don't want to see you or anyone get taken. After seeing your last obverse pic of the Cholmschild I stand by my conclusion more than ever.

Gene

[Stijn David]

Cholmschield

Hello,


Time to chime in it appears. Cholmshields awarded: There where only +/_ 5.500 shields ever awarded. Numbers of 10.000 do not stand on solid ground.

A CHolmshield with the kind of backing paper as shown by Howard is unfortunattly not one i do trust. Iff you want a solid shield with no discussion at all, then you will need another type of shield (the only awarded type) and these have no paper glued on the reverse but cloth. The shieldtype i am talking about is the one as Pascal has a beautifull example in his collection, it is the exact same type as Gene's, etc ... etc ...


Cordial greetings,

[Pascal H.]

Hi Howard,
I wish I could tell you how many manufactures there were of the Cholm shield but I can’t. The amount of manufactures of the Cholm shield is still unknown to me. What I do know is that IMO there was more then one type of Cholm shield and therefore I would think that there was more then one manufacture of the Cholm shield.

IMO there were at least 4 different types of Cholm shields.

Iron, 3 pins normal M
Iron, 3 pins long M
Zinc, 4 pins normal M
Buntmetall, 2 pins normal M

Let’s concentrate on your type, the one with the long “M”.

“Because one shield does not match another is not always a bad sign. If we can confirm that the item in question is original. Does it not help all collector's learn something "new." That is what the forum is for....., the free exchange of ideas and knowledge.”

A statement I fully agree with but not completely true in your case as your shield matches several others which I consider to be period made.

The same shield as posted by Gordon Williamson. This picture comes from a European magazine on a article about the Cholm Shield, highlighting the differences between the originals and the fakes.

[Pascal H.]

The same shield from Kai Winkler

[Pascal H.]

The same shield from Stijn David

[Pascal H.]

The same shield in Detlev Niemanns catalogue page 578

[Pascal H.]

When comparing Detlevs shield with yours you can see clearly that this is exactly the same type of shield.

[Pascal H.]

These are only a few of the shields I have on file from collectors of which I respect their opinion and knowledge on the Cholm shield.

KR
Pascal Huysmans

[Howard Kelley]

Thank you Pascal!

These are only a few of the shields I have on file from collectors of which I respect their opinion and knowledge on the Cholm shield.

KR
Pascal Huysmans

Pascal,

You are a real asset to this site. I thank you for sharing photos from your archive. But above all thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Also, thank you for having the patience to keeping an open mind until I could post better photos of the shield.

Seems that now we are having an educated discussion upon the Cholm shield.

Welcome any other collector's / dealer's that can provide evidence concerning original period made Cholm Shields.

Thanks to everyone for their opinions. Look forward to learning more.

Cheers,
Howard

P.S. David, the 10 thousand number was in reference to the Knights Cross.
Agree, that the reference books say only 5,500 Cholm shields were awarded.
And what I have learned, the first pattern, i.e., Gene's shield was one of the first 5,500 that were officially awarded. Which makes them very rare and desirable!

HLK

[Stijn David]

different company's

Hello,


Just some food for tought about different manufacturers. I do not believe that it is good to compare cholmshields towards Knights crosses etc ...

Looking for comparison in relation towards the numbers awarded are close but still no cigar. As known there are approx. 5.500 cholmshields awarded (this means as much as 5.500 unique award documents where in existence. More shields where produced etc ... ) . KC's we are getting a number of approx. 7.700 (more where also produced, etc ... )

Then this where every comparison does stop IMHO, now towards why :

1) A cholmshield was only awarded for participation in a particular battle, and was also only awarded for a very limited time.

The KC however could been awarded from 01.09.1939 towards 08.05.1945 (the whole war through)

2) A cholmshield is much easier to produce then a KC, it was stamped in one run and does exist only out of the shield, the pins and the seperate backing plate.

The KC however does exist out of 3 pieces (not be counted is the loop) , needs several industrial steps in order to produce it.

It is true that several company's did produce the KC => there was to be more need for KC's then there was need for Cholmshields.

Probably 2 company's (both unkown at this point in time) did produce the Cholmshield. 1 company could have easely produced the whole batch as after a certain time (awardings stopped) the need was to be rather minimal.

I do think that we must look really into first the nature of the award and then think how a wartime economy would produce such things. The puzzling togheter from these things is much fun.

The shield as Gene's are for sure the official awarded types (iff a posthumously award was made = 1 piece, iff a living recipient more could be bestowed depending on your rank, etc ... ). So iff you want one that is officially awarded => get one as Gene's.

The shields with 2 prongs (Buntmetal) are most probably for use as Photoalbum decoration, etc ... (that is also where i did encounter 1 still present with a Lw. veteran)

Cordial greetings,

[Howard Kelley]

David,

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

This has been a very informative thread.

Regards to all,
Howard