German Cross "21"

[Luigi Vianelli]

Dear friends,
I have in my collection this German Cross in Gold numbered 21.



The Cross comes directly from the recipient's family, together with the "Urkunde" (Luftwaffe). I have sent the Cross and the "Urkunde" to mr Nimmergut. He certified that the two pieces are original and now I have also the Nimmergut's photoexpertise. Now, the reverse of the Cross is very different from the same item pictured in the Wehrmacht-Awards site (from the François Saez Collection). Why?

Some pictures of my Cross:






(See Niemann, "Bewertungs-Katalog", p.448)

Would you like to post your comments?

Thank you.
Ciao.
Luigi

PS I can send more photos, or the photo of the "Urkunde".

[François SAEZ]

Hi Luigi,
I am not sure it helps to give names here as nobody (me first) is an expert or has all the knowledge.
As you refer to Niemann, "Bewertungs-Katalog", p.448, you have probably noticed that your pics (especially the position of the hinge) don't match with the example pictured on Niemann.
Now, another difference will be the hook, but I have to say that I am more familiar with "hooks" like mine than like your.
Yes, I would be interested by more pics (private emails or on the forum), including the document, especially close ups of the rivets (right side) and close ups of the signatures on the doc.
As I am far from being an expert, I invite other collectors to share their opinion on this subject.
Friendly
François

[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: François SAEZ ]

[rkoy]

im definately no experton these, but heres a few observations.the swaz looks too far to the right, the red color around the wreath isnt uniform around, it doesnt appear to be even..... just my humble opinion....rkoy

[blake]

I too am far from an expert on German Cross construction or variations between makers. I own a "20" cross and have attached pics of the silver frame around the enamel swastika. The silver frame is very crisp and the corners are perfect 45's with the enamel straight. There are no cut corners. I was just wondering if others have noticed this and what the general opinion about this is. Thanks for the read.

[Luigi Vianelli]

Now I'm posting more pics of my Cross:

The rivets (right side)


The rivets (left side)


The "Urkunde"


Goering's signature


Last words of Nimmergut's expertise of the Cross


Thank you for comments.
Ciao.
Luigi

PS If you like more photos...

[Gordon Williamson]

I am not suggesting this piece is wrong, but personally, if I was offered a 21 marked DK like this, or the type illustrated on this site and also described by Francois, I would take Francois type every time.

Gordon

[François SAEZ]

Luigi,
Can you, please, make a close up of the low branch, enamel part, above 1941.
Thanks
Friendly
François

[Luigi Vianelli]

François,
voilà more pics:







What do you think about the "Urkunde"? I have the Nimmergut's photoexpertise also for this item (my personal opinion: is original without doubt). I would remember that the Cross (complete with box) and the "Urkunde" come directly from the recipient's family.

For me the question is: it's possible that Godet made two Cross so different?

Thank you for your attention.

Ciao.
Luigi

[François SAEZ]

Hi Luigi,
The Urkunde looks ok, it should be 254mm x 356mm, could you make a close up of the second signature, please?
Friendly
François

[François SAEZ]

Also, could you, please, take pics of the case: open/close/front/back, give the size and weight.
What is the weight of the cross 'according to you)?
Friendly
François

[Luigi Vianelli]

Now, the pics of the case:













About the measurements of the Cross (in german):

Sternkorpus: 61,8 x 61,6 mm
Sternauflage: 57,8 mm
Grundplatte Medaillon: 39,9 mm
Lorbeerkranz aussen: 38,7 mm
Lorbeerkranz innen: 30,5 mm
Hakenkreuz: 20,8 mm
Schenkelbreite: 4,1 mm

Weight: 60,25 g

Ciao.
Luigi

[prvtdck]

First of all...wonderful pictures! Secondly, Luigi, is the stripe silver?
dave

[Luigi Vianelli]

Dave,
thank you for your words. I use a good digital camera.

About the strip: is in gold.

Ciao.
Luigi

[François SAEZ]

Luigi,
Please,can you post a close up of the second signature on the document (bottom right).
Thanks
Friendly
François

[Luigi Vianelli]

Sure!

General Gustav Kastner-Kirdorf's signature:


The measurements of the "Urkunde" (in german):

Hoehe: 353,0 mm
Breite: 254,0 mm
Durchmesser Deutsches Kreuz: 63,0 mm
Praegestempel: 96,0 x 61,0 mm

The weight of the case (without Cross) is 89,5 g

Ciao.
Luigi