Variations in badges

[emaroli]

Hello to all, I would like to add a few comments on badge variations. I work in the stamping business as a prodution manager and I'm familiar with many manufacturing processes. First of all the weight, the weight of pieces will very from run to run. If the specs call for material .090 +/-.010 thick the actuall thickness can run from .080 to .100. That is a %20 diference in weight while still being within print. Pieces that are made during the same run should weight the same. But a different run 3 weeks later could of used a different gauge of material, depending on what was left. The same thing is going to apply to hinges, catches and pins. What stays the same is the die characteristics, the actually image of the piece. Tools and Dies back then were hand made and every one was unique. They will start to show wear after use and they will be repaired from time to time. This will show changes. Tooling is also very expensive to produce. This is why alot of the new high grade fakes reuse the same tooling with different maker marks; FBL/FLL/unmarked close combat clasp, the Aurich/A.S. Panzer adges, L/21 screwback EKI and pin back versions of the same. The new repros are made with computer EDM machines. With a good eye it is easy to spot these because everything is too perfect, the lettering most especialy. There are a host of new Schwerin Badges out there that are just too perfect in their construction. Expect some variations in size and weight, it is the tooling that's hard to fake.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

I don't have Ed's direct experience with dies but I can back his observations/comments up 100% from my recent study of Schwerin High Seas Fleet Badges. They certainly show evidence of die wear and repair and, although their hinge/pin/catch are virtually identical, the weight variations in genuine badges was quite an eye-opener. I no longer believe that if a badge does not weigh XX grams then it is a reproduction. There are certainly weight tolerances and that will vary depending upon the period of manufacturer. As an example, from the tombak Schwerin HSF badges that I weighed, there was a 2.6 g variation. For the genuine zinc Schwerin HSF badges that I weighed, there was a 4.3 g variation. Between the heaviest tombak badge and the lightest zinc badge, there was a whopping 7.6 g variation. I would not expect all types of badges to have such a wide variation and reproductions can definitely still be determined by weight variations but weight alone should not be a sole determining factor. As Ed states, it's the die characteristics (tooling) which are the really important things.

Regards
Mike K

[Warren O]

Hey Mike,
With your study of the HSF did Schwerin keep its same dye throughout its war time manufacture?
Warren

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Warren,

From my observations/study, I strongly believe that Schwerin only ever had one (1) set of dies for their HSF badge and that the missing left hand window on some earlier (tombak) badges can be explained by die wear and repair. I freely admit that I can not prove my strong belief as I wasn't there and I have not been in contact with anybody who was, however the evidence provided by studying the badges is very convincing (to me anyway).

Unfortunately I'm off overseas tomorrow for about 6 weeks and the article will be further delayed until February next year now. I had hoped to have had the article finished prior to Christmas. The text and images are complete, just not formatted. So I expect my fellow collectors to remain spectical on this point but will hopefully avoid the repros in the meantime!

Regards
Mike K

PS: sorry to take so long to answer, I've been away with my family - I'll only be home for 24 hours now because work calls unexpectedly early!

[Hugh W. Brock]

From what I have learned so far, all of the mass produced German badges and medals (this excludes items like the oak leaves and swords with diamonds, which are made the way any expensive jewelry is made)are made from steel dies, either struck, pressed or (late in the war) cast.
Cast badges should be fairly consistent in weight, but the weight of die struck badges depends on 1)how thick the blank material is and 2)how far down it is smashed into the die. The dies do not touch. There is always material squshed out to the sides that must be trimmed in a cutting die or the like. So weight can vary pretty significantly even using the same dies, particularly over several years time.
On variations: There can be variances in details because of dirt, oil, trash, inclusions in the blank. Foreign material may cut or dent a die. An item may shift ever so slightly and be struck twice. The items are piled up and may be dinged or scratched from being in a heap with hundreds of others.
On manufacture: I do not think the German companies were working on clean, high tech machines like Ed is accustomed to. I imagine (need to go the Germany and look)the set ups were mostly turn of the century where blanks were fed in one at a time by hand and few if any of the companies had automated continuous feed equipment. You might find that at a state mint, but most of the companies making badges in the beginning were small. Die cast badges appear around 1944.
That in mind, if you wanted to up production, you needed several machines going at the same time, so you needed several dies. There are some good articles on die manufacture for coins available. The production of the first big plaster model and its transfer to a steel hub is the most costly step. After that, additional dies are almost as easy to produce as the medals. They are stamped out of soft steel and then the dies are hardened. I do think and have seen that current fakes are made on the same dies and different maker marks stamped in them. You can make more money that way, and the chisellers that make and sell the fakes a)don't have a good job where they make all the money they want and b)are lazy by nature, always looking for an angle, a shortcut. They will always ask "How good do I have to be to get by?", not is it perfect (unless they are the really sickos who are trying to prove they are as good as by faking things.)
So, my main divergence from Ed is that I think the Germans originally used multiple die sets, at least for things they needed to produce a lot of in a hurry (like infantry assault badges in July, 1941 or East Front medals in early 1942). I once compared about 6 sheet brass silver plate IAB's, all unmarked, and could find minor differences in all the details. They could have been from different makers.
I think this is something we can find out at the source (Luedenscheid), since the companies never were bombed and are in the same places. The Museum there has dies on display and also photos of the companies at the turn of the century, even restrikes of WW2 medals from the original dies (you can tell it, too.).