only a flak badge...

[pattex]

Hello,
on the first view it's "only" a flak badge made by deumer.

On the second view it's a real rarity, do you discover why?

best regards
Pattex

[Matthieu]

It has an St&L eagle and/or no hole on the bottom of the FLAK base ( next to catch ) ?

[Nigel N]

Its an unusual looking badge that's for sure!!!
The whole design looks more like S&L's, I don't know if its the finish on the badge, or the lighting, but its hard to make out the small details, such s the rivets!
The pin looks like a Deumer (or maybe even Souval)
As far as I know, Deumer had their own luft flak design early on, and then switched to the same design as the heer??
One puzzling thing, is that some things look a little strange....
For example, the bottom hand-wheel, which is normally perfectly round, on this one its not...being almost flat on the bottom???
The die itself looks like it is old and worn, compared with the crispness we usually see???
Please tell us more!!!! Any Souval connection???
-Nigel

[pattex]

Hello,
Matthieus points are also correct, it seems to be an eagle by S&L and there is no hole on the bottom of the flak base.

For Nigel I made a scan to make out the small details. The details are very fine and for example there are no rivets .

From my perspective there is no Souval connection .

best regards
Pattex

PS: The rarity is justified in the normality of the piece .

[Nigel N]

Thanks for that!!
The badge looks much better to me now!!!
Details are sharper, and the finish looks much better and also quite old and worn in places!!!
I still don't know exactly what it is though
Its not the early Deumer Luft Flak design.....
The eagle is S&L with the "O" mark....
The body and wreath look more like S&L, but as Mathijs said, theres no hole, and the other things are slightly different too??
The pin looks more like Deumer, the catch could be either maker??
I'll have to wait for the answer, because I don't know!!!
-Nigel

[pattex]

Hello Nigel,
could you do me a favor and show the early Deumer luft flak design?

best regards
Pattex

[Nigel N]

Hello Nigel,
could you do me a favor and show the early Deumer luft flak design?

best regards
Pattex

Hi Pattex
If you go over to the GCA forum, and type in Deumer Flak, you should find it there!
Its one of Stijn's if I remember....maybe he wouldn't mind the photo being posted here, but I wont without asking his permission first!!
-Nigel

[pattex]

Hi Pattex
If you go over to the GCA forum, and type in Deumer Flak, you should find it there!
Its one of Stijn's if I remember....maybe he wouldn't mind the photo being posted here, but I wont without asking his permission first!!
-Nigel

Hi Nigel,
I know the piece of Stijn, but this is a de-nazified zinc FLL flak, perhaps factory made. You could find the identical piece with swastika of Jordan Wills also in the GCA forum .

best regards
Pattex

[Nigel N]

Hi Nigel,
I know the piece of Stijn, but this is a de-nazified zinc FLL flak, perhaps factory made. You could find the identical piece with swastika of Jordan Wills also in the GCA forum .

best regards
Pattex

Aaahhh Ok thanks for that!!!
So....is yours a Deumer with an S&L eagle????
Or........???????????
Maybe wait a while to reply...someone else might get it!!!!
-Nigel

[Nigel N]

Ok...i'm going to have another shot at it......
Wartime design Deumer body, with a replacement S&L eagle
Any closer??
-Nigel

[LuckyLuudje]

Looks like solder on the picture?

I am not used to see such a sloppy solder job from S&L as well as Deumer on the eagles. Maybe monday morning made.

[LuckyLuudje]

As for the eagle, Deumer used both eagles on their 57's Like S&L.
Here a picture of an early Deumer and S&L Erdkampf,
And one from an Eagle S&L used on their LW flak.

I am used to see the finish on the eagle to be consistant with the badge.
So I am curious about what happend.

[pattex]

Hello,
thank you for all your comments.

Please try to compare the eagles of the showed type between Deumer and S&L for example on ground assault badge, flak badge, sea battle badge and so on.

There is no real difference between Deumer and S&L eagle - perhaps same primeval form .

best regards
Pattex

[pattex]

Than take a look on wartime flak badges by Deumer, for example here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=686106

Amongst others no rivets on the flak base... like on my 57er piece.

The design is really very similar.

best regards
Pattex

[pattex]

And also the pin setup is typical Deumer.

So I'm convinced that we here see the first real 1957 Deumer LW flak badge with the correct wreath of oak leaves and not the converted army flak badge that we usually find.

best regards
Pattex