My first Deutsch Kreuz in Gold 1957's S&L

[MrPink]

Hello all

I was trying to find my 1st DKiG and I found it the seller told me it's a S&L piece in my opinion not Deumer. The box is a jewelry box with a gold line, I know its a "modern" box.
If you have more informations about S&L or something to learn please dont hesitate. Weight : +/- 80gr. If you can resize photos please do it sorry about that and when do you think its ? middle or late version.

Best regards,
Benoit.

[Nigel N]

Hi Benoit!!
It looks like a later S&L DK.
Is the red ring enamel or just painted?
Could you show a photo with the pin closed too!!
It has a thick catch, and an open hingeblock, so wont be an early example, most S&L's have open rivets, yours has solid, domed ones, we have seen these before, in fact I think Tom said he had one, if Tom can tell us when he bought his, if it was from new, then we would have an approximate production date fro the solid rivet, I don't think this variant lasted long???
-Nigel

[Skyhawk]

Hi,


Agree with Nigel, and I think the ring is painted as evidenced by excess paint in the 5 o'clock position. Also, the painted rings appear glossier than the enamel rings. Please always show the entire pin for dating purposes.

The golden wreath has me a little puzzled as it appears to be more like that found on a Deumer DK, than an S&L DK?? It's probably just the thickness of the finish or the lighting/angle.

Best,

Jeff

[MrPink]

Hi Benoit!!
It looks like a later S&L DK.
Is the red ring enamel or just painted?
Could you show a photo with the pin closed too!!
It has a thick catch, and an open hingeblock, so wont be an early example, most S&L's have open rivets, yours has solid, domed ones, we have seen these before, in fact I think Tom said he had one, if Tom can tell us when he bought his, if it was from new, then we would have an approximate production date fro the solid rivet, I don't think this variant lasted long???
-Nigel

[IMG]https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/895169received1893991767519925.jpg[IMG]



Here you go guys.
Red is painted... I would like to know if its a late piece. Please I don't want to know the value, i'm not here for talking about money, i want to learn.
Let me know if you think its a S&L

Best regards,
Benoît.

[MrPink]

Hi Benoit!!
It looks like a later S&L DK.
Is the red ring enamel or just painted?
Could you show a photo with the pin closed too!!
It has a thick catch, and an open hingeblock, so wont be an early example, most S&L's have open rivets, yours has solid, domed ones, we have seen these before, in fact I think Tom said he had one, if Tom can tell us when he bought his, if it was from new, then we would have an approximate production date fro the solid rivet, I don't think this variant lasted long???
-Nigel

[Mustangstje]

Hi Benoit,

This is a very late production or even modern made DKiG from St&L. They still make them out of Lüdenscheid you know.

Regards,
Nick

[MrPink]

Hi Benoit,

This is a very late production or even modern made DKiG from St&L. They still make them out of Lüdenscheid you know.

Regards,
Nick

Thanks a lot I appreciate.

[Tom B]

Hi Benoit!!
It looks like a later S&L DK.
Is the red ring enamel or just painted?
Could you show a photo with the pin closed too!!
It has a thick catch, and an open hingeblock, so wont be an early example, most S&L's have open rivets, yours has solid, domed ones, we have seen these before, in fact I think Tom said he had one, if Tom can tell us when he bought his, if it was from new, then we would have an approximate production date fro the solid rivet, I don't think this variant lasted long???
-Nigel

I purchased one like this in 1988 at the S&L shop. I also purchase a "Silver" DK of the same type construction that day. Hope this helps. Tom (neither were cased)

[Alex W.]

I agree, to me it looks like modern production. The gold wreath indeed looks like Deumer , but this might be due to lighting of the picture.

Regards,
Alex

[MrPink]

I agree, to me it looks like modern production. The gold wreath indeed looks like Deumer , but this might be due to lighting of the picture.

Regards,
Alex

What you mean with modern piece ? After 1980 ?

Regards
Benoit

[Alex W.]

What you mean with modern piece ? After 1980 ?

Regards
Benoit

Hi Benoit,

Yes, IMO definitely produced after 1980. Like Nick stated earlier, these piece are still produced by S&L.

Regards,
Alex

[Nigel N]

Now here is something quite interesting...........
I have seen a few DK's, which while later pieces, weren't current production types, that had solid rivets...
Tom said he bought his in 1988, and looking at Benoit's DK, an 80's date would seem about right!!
Now have a look at this piece from Huesken's site........
6493.jpg

6493_1.jpg

I have been told that Huesken buys direct from S&L, and so his pieces should be current production!!
Looking at his DK, it does have solid rivets, but otherwise it looks very different from Benoit's???
To me this would indicate that its possible, S&L used a solid rivet for a time in the late 80's+. reverted to the open rivet after that (as the open rivet is the type commonly found on later DK's) And have switched once again to a solid rivet for their current production????
From the DK's we see, it doesn't seem that S&L have been using a solid rivet right through from '88 until today???? There are far more open rivet variants around than solid type!!
-Nigel

[Skyhawk]

Intetesting points Nigel!

Possibly we could take this discussion further, maybe in a new thread? What is being riveted in the different production periods? Enamel ring inserted in ealier pieces versus painted in later. Change in golden laurel leaf design between early/mid and late/modern? Why would hollow versus solid rivets be used?

Best,

Jeff

[Mustangstje]

With the prices Huesken is asking, I sincerely doubt anyone purchases from him. He must've had them for decades by now.

Here's a member who ordered his directly from St&L last year, sadly no pic of the reverse. Obverse looks a match though.

Regards,
Nick

[Nigel N]

No idea how long he's had that DK Nick, as you say, it could be years???
His Ost's are the latest type though, and do seem to sell out regularly!!
-Nigel