Questions on Sedlatzek

[Nigel N]

Hi Guys!
We all know the famous retailer Friedrich Sedlatek, both for wartime and 57 period, indeed he had his own catalog of 57 & postwar pieces, which I am sure many of you have!!
I don't think he was shy about selling TR pieces postwar either!!!
My questions are this..........
When did Sedlatek first start his business?????
I have seen a few etui of his that have the number of years he had been open...
This example has "70 years" on it........
sedlatzek.jpg

While this one has "75 years" on it......
s-l1600 (127).jpg

If we know when he started, we can date these etui!!!!!

[Nigel N]

2nd question.......
When did Sedlatzek move from Berlin to Kochel am see?????
Was it immediately after the war???
Here's a wartime feldspange with his old address.......
post-7116-0-37858600-1374102005.jpg

And what I believe is a postwar assembled ordensspange with his later address....
post-7116-0-28525400-1359508881.jpg

Some Sedlatzek medalbars have all Imperial or TR pieces on them, but the red backing cloth and "Kochel- OBB" label on them, to me these are postwar assembled, but some collectors refuse to even consider that!!!
Any help and thoughts/comments would be great!
I might also ask the same question in some of the other sections if no-one here knows??
-Nigel

[Tom B]

Hi Nigel, Just a guess but the Berlin address is just past Checkpoint Charlie in What was East Germany. I'm guessing they re-located before the Berlin wall went up in 1961 because they knew it would be the end of their business. I crossed through Checkpoint Charlie several times to visit the old Bunker site and the Luft Air Ministry complex. Tom

[tony james]

Nigel
it says in Dietrichs book that at the beginning of 1945 sedlatzek was bombed out and moved to Kochel/Barvaria .have you ever seen a Knights cross case with his name on it ?

[Nigel N]

Thanks Tony and Tom!!
I have checked the adverts in both the Geeb/Kirchner & Krantz books, both from 1958, and they have this advert.......
DSCF3450.JPG

This confirms they were in Kochel by at least 1958, and they had also been in business for 75 years by then!!!
@Tony, I have seen wartime EK's, Hindy's etc with his name on them, but not an RK or accompanying case? He was only a retailer I believe, not a maker, and the so-called Sedlatzek RK is almost certainly by Souval I think, some of which maybe wartime, while others are perhaps early postwar??
-Nigel

[Nigel N]

Here's an example of a medal bar by Sedlatzek, which the owner believed was either inter-war or TR period.
The label from this bar was the one shown earlier in the thread!!
We can now say for sure this is post WW2 assembled.......
post-7116-0-02012800-1368197655.jpg

post-7116-0-69120800-1368197646.jpg

[Nigel N]

I also found a third earlier address for Friedrich Sedlatzek, this one is from the Imperial period, still Berlin but Leipzigerstrasse not the later FriedrichStrasse.....
post-7116-0-46900900-1329684958.jpg

s-l1600 (129).jpg

The metal tab is on one of Andrews Medalbars!!!
-Nigel

[Alex W.]

Thanks Tony and Tom!!
I have checked the adverts in both the Geeb/Kirchner & Krantz books, both from 1958, and they have this advert.......
[ATTACH]3777752[/ATTACH]

This confirms they were in Kochel by at least 1958, and they had also been in business for 75 years by then!!!
@Tony, I have seen wartime EK's, Hindy's etc with his name on them, but not an RK or accompanying case? He was only a retailer I believe, not a maker, and the so-called Sedlatzek RK is almost certainly by Souval I think, some of which maybe wartime, while others are perhaps early postwar??
-Nigel

The miscalled "Sedlatzek RK" is nothing more than the wartime Souval made RK, dating back to the pre LDO period. It's about time that this cross is called by what it is.
I knew this all along, but final proof came through a RK which is now in my collection.
It features the wartime core ("Sedlatzek") with a typical flawed mid-60's Souval frame.

Sedlatzek was nothing more than a retailer. Sedlatzek moved to Kochel after his shop in Berlin was bombed out in 1944 or 1945. From talking to someone that personally Mr. Sedlatzek and especially his daughter who ran shop operation in Kochel in the mid-later 1960's I learned a lot of what all they sold.

Regards,
Alex

[speedytop]

Hi,

When did Sedlatek first start his business?????

He started in 1883.

Post WWII I can find an early advertisement in 1952, in "Der Deutsche Soldatenkalender 1953", with the wrong spelled Name Sedlatzeck. Seit 70 Jahren.
Note his remark: price list free

In 1962 we can find the pricelist (Preisliste) Nr. 11, in 1956 the pricelist Nr. 7.

On the assumption that these post-war lists starts with Nr. 1, there should be the first list very early in the 50s.

Uwe

[Ghocking]

Hi Alex
Are you saying in your opinion that the Sedlazek KC ( Souval pre LDO) is actually wartime?
These crosses seem to go for upto 1500 euros?
So collectors must be convinced they maybe!
Thoughts please?

Gary

[Nigel N]

Thanks Uwe!!
So the etui that say "since 70 years" should date from 1953-58, when I guess they changed the wording to "since 75 years" covering the 1958-63 period.
I haven't yet seen one with 80 or more years on them, but they may well exist!!
This does give us a better idea when, for example, a 57er is found with a Sedlatzek etui, if the date of both is a match, even approximately, then we could say that orden and etui at least have a chance of always being together rather than being a "marriage"!!
-Nigel

[Nigel N]

Hi Alex
Are you saying in your opinion that the Sedlazek KC ( Souval pre LDO) is actually wartime?
These crosses seem to go for upto 1500 euros?
So collectors must be convinced they maybe!
Thoughts please?

Gary

Hi Gary!
This isn't really the right place for discussing these, as I think they have strong wartime links, but theres not much else going on, so..........
Firstly let me say that I agree with Alex, calling them "Sedlatzek" is inaccurate and misleading, the same as calling a Deumer 57 RK a "Schickle"! Unfortunately, once a piece has gained a "name" it can be difficult for people to call it anything else!!
I had the opportunity to handle one of the so-called "Sedlatzek" RK's a couple of months ago, I was impressed by the quality, the only thing that let it down a little for me was the core paint, which seemed thick and uneven, I don't know if they are all like that, as its the only one I've actually had hands on!!
Looking at the evidence, I would say, the most likely scenario is this.....
Souval made these RK's in the early war years, pre LDO, before rules and regulations came into force. For whatever reason, Souval never received the go-ahead to officially make them, so I guess they were stuck with them?
Some may have been bought by vets wartime, early on, some may have made their way into shop or museum displays etc.
After the wars end, I would think Souval did what they did with other pieces, selling the finished pieces, assembling and finishing any pieces that weren't complete, and when those parts had run out, switched to the more commonly found postwar pattern??
So IMO, some so-called "Sedlatzek" RK's are wartime made, some are early postwar...telling one from another is for others with the knowledge to work out!!
Just my take on things (please don't shoot me down...anyone!!)
-Nigel

[Ghocking]

Thanks again Nigel for your wealth of Knowledge.....sorry about questioning here , forgot about them being Swaz cored , no longer discussed in the 57 forum but I was just following the thread.
Regards
Gary

[Nigel N]

Thanks again Nigel for your wealth of Knowledge.....sorry about questioning here , forgot about them being Swaz cored , no longer discussed in the 57 forum but I was just following the thread.
Regards
Gary

Hi Gary!!
No problem, you asked a question!!
Forgetting the Swaz core, these are better discussed in the crosses section anyawy, with the wartime connection and all.
I have only given you my thoughts on them (not guaranteed to be correct) others may see things differently, but they are a very interesting subject, that's for sure!!
-Nigel

[Alex W.]

Nigel was quicker with his reply. I agree with him, this topic is taking things away from his initial thread. Since he made some very good points, I'd also like to add a few things myself.

Garry, to me there is no doubt that this is the Souval RK of the pre-LDO period, as the earliest postwar made Souval crosses featured the non-magnetic variant of the postwar type core. It is time that these RK's are named by what they truely are - the Souval pre LDO RK.
Most importantly the recently discovered "Souval hybrid-RK" - a combination of the so called "Sedlatzek" core and the flawed mid-1960's Souval frame - gave the most proof possible as to the true origin of this RK. I have this cross in my collection, so it's not a matter of speculation any more.
By the way, it's not total unusual for such hybrids to show up. S&L also made such wartime/postwar combinations - Gentry is the man who very knowledgeable on these pieces.

Best regards,
Alex