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    #16
    Very interesting to see Matthieu's "unworked" version! They look very much like a Souval piece.

    Ouestion: Is it correct to assume that these type of Souval diamonds are from the beginning of the 1960's?

    Comment

      #17
      Hi Dwight!
      I think that sounds about right date-wise for those Oak??
      -Nigel
      sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

      Comment

        #18
        No, in fact those "Souval" oaks are much earlier than the 1960's.

        Best regards,
        Alex

        Comment

          #19
          I guess as no-one so far has shown even a photo of a set of S&L OLS & Diamonds, they must indeed be very rare???
          I am hoping Bob will have a pic??
          -Nigel
          sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

          Comment

            #20
            I also like to know whether S&L did make the post war diamond to KC. To me, I doubt.

            Comment

              #21
              This thread is very interesting! What do we in fact know about post war Diamonds production? As I understand the discussion in this thread, S&L made Diamonds must be very rare. But both Souval and Klein did produce Diamonds. Were there other well known german medal manufacturers that made Diamonds post war? And when did the production start? As I understand from Alex W.'s post, Souval made Diamonds long before 1960.

              Comment

                #22
                Originally posted by Dwight View Post
                This thread is very interesting! What do we in fact know about post war Diamonds production? As I understand the discussion in this thread, S&L made Diamonds must be very rare. But both Souval and Klein did produce Diamonds. Were there other well known german medal manufacturers that made Diamonds post war? And when did the production start? As I understand from Alex W.'s post, Souval made Diamonds long before 1960.
                We don't know "IF" S&L made Diamonds at all. Souval made all kinds of stuff before 1960 & Klein is the only other one we know of for sure that made post war Diamonds. Private jewelers very well could have made a few sets also ????? Tom

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                  #23
                  The only clues I have that S&L made them are Chris Ailsby's statement in one of his books that said S&L made them again, alongside their 57 RK's, but made many more than would ever be needed, with the surplus being sold on the collectors market, and Bob Hritz's comment when shown a Souval set, saying S&L's were the same size and shape as their normal postwar OLS!
                  -Nigel
                  sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Hi Guys,

                    Not that I have any first-hand knowledge, but it would make no sense to me for S&L to make any diamonds award. For a serious manufacturer of Bundeswehr awards and of accepted '57-design awards, it would be inconsistent to make reproductions of diamonds awards. The Oakleaves with Diamonds were awarded to only 27 people in wartime which is a very small potential market for replacement awards, and of course they had no swastika anyway so no reason for a 57 version and no reason to throw out their originals. A serious replacement award would likely involve a jeweller for custom modification of regular Oakleaves, not a factory designed for bulk manufacturing.

                    Souval, on the other hand, made no distinction between the "serious" market and anyone else, and so made and marketed kitsch to the collector market.

                    Best regards,
                    ---Norm

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Nigel N View Post
                      Chris Ailsby's statement in one of his books that said S&L made them again, alongside their 57 RK's, but made many more than would ever be needed, with the surplus being sold on the collectors market -Nigel
                      This is probably correct as we have seen St u L philosophy in the making of 57er awards to re use/share dies of awards and alter or add to, in order to save money.............so it would make sense that they simply added paste gems or diamonds (depending on the order) to an ordinary set of their production O/S.
                      I know Christopher, so I have asked him to reply to this question, and if he has any images or further notes to add to this discussion via myself.
                      Prost ! Steve.
                      Last edited by Steve 5; 04-09-2015, 10:10 AM.

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Nigel N View Post
                        Heres a link to a 2010 thread in which Bob shows Sepp Dietrichs Diamonds, the ones he wore postwar.......
                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=408431
                        From that same thread, here's the one-and-only example of what Bob Hritz described as the only S&L set with diamonds he had seen, but I don't see any evidence to support that it was actually made by S&L. S&L was not a jeweller yet each rhinestone was held in place in its own setting -- very inconsistent with an S&L factory product.

                        Best regards,
                        ---Norm
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Norm F; 04-09-2015, 10:30 AM.

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Thanks Steve, I hope he can help!!
                          @Norm, What you say makes sense, however S&L have something of a history in this kind of thing, they went ahead and made medal versions of the ADB & TDB, not waiting to see if they would get the official go-ahead (which they didn't) they then sold the lot to the collectors market! Similarly, they must have thought that a 57 version of the Westwall would be made, as they made a number of those too!!
                          Each of these pieces required a new die making, so if they "only" converted ordinary OLS, then that wouldn't have been too big a deal for them I guess?
                          An entirely new die for different/ larger Diamond OLS would be a bigger job, but if they did it for the Westwall, ADB & TDB....who knows????
                          I hope we can find an answer!!!
                          -Nigel
                          sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                            but I don't see any evidence to support that it was actually made by S&L. S&L was not a jeweller yet each rhinestone was held in place in its own setting -- very inconsistent with an S&L factory product.Best regards,
                            ---Norm
                            I agree, and as Bob states in the original thread, the swords were finished on the reverse.....unlike St u L post war made O/S !
                            Prost ! Steve.

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                              From that same thread, here's the one-and-only example of what Bob Hritz described as the only S&L set with diamonds he had seen, but I don't see any evidence to support that it was actually made by S&L. S&L was not a jeweller yet each rhinestone was held in place in its own setting -- very inconsistent with an S&L factory product.

                              Best regards,
                              ---Norm
                              Better photos.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Yes, when referring to those particular OLS, I think Bob did specifically say, that set wasn't by S&L ?
                                Interesting set though!!!!!!!!!
                                -Nigel
                                sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                                Comment

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