Glider thread Assmann versus S&L Reference Thread

[LuckyLuudje]

I promissed to post the Assmann gliders after the observers last week here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=602034

To compare the Assmanns with I picked out the best S&L glider and has a thick round needle.
So here we go and this time I will not give my own opinion anymore.

Assmann next to a S&L

[LuckyLuudje]

Assmanns, both marked and same hardware, coincidence?

Also not the hardware wich makes this badge a modern/late made badge according a discussion thread.

[LuckyLuudje]

And that must make the S&Learly

[LuckyLuudje]

A mark and the Assmann rivets compared to a S&L.

[LuckyLuudje]

The head and wing comparisson

[LuckyLuudje]

notice the flaws on the Assmann wreaths

[LuckyLuudje]

.

[LuckyLuudje]

I will end with an ugly Souval that I once had to show some similarities to the eagles posted.

[Nigel N]

Hi Luud!!
Firstly, fantastic photo's, so close up and clear!!
Secondly, apologies in advance if everything that follows is rubbish, the wine is flowing here!!!party0036.gif
Plus i'm no expert on Luft badges in general, and Glider badges in particular!!
Ok, it looks to me, that both the eagle and the wreath on both the S&L and the Assmann, came from the same original or mother die.
There are several flaws and imperfections on the Assmann that either are'nt so developed, or are'nt there at all on the S&L, so i'm guessing Assmann obtained an older die from S&L??
The finish on the pieces is very different, not only the paint finish, but the actual hand or machine finishing looks different.
The rivets and hardware are different too, if Assmann obtained the hardware from S&L, the thick catch and open hingeblock should date the Assmann pieces to late 60's at least? I dont know if they did or not, but if the dies came from S&L, then theres at least a chance that the hardware did too???
Always strange Assmann pieces, to me at least, some things say early while others say later!!
Great thought provoking thread!!!!
-Nigel

[Mike Yokum]

A fascinating look at some beautiful badges Luud. Thanks very much for sharing them with us.

I own and therefore have seen Assman badges in hand and the ones I've seen are IMO of the earliest production. I think often, when we look at Assman's, we think late made, because of the open hinge blocks and wide, flat wire catches and operating under the S&L presupposition, we think they're later made.

I'll share a few pics that can lead to timeline confusion. First is the reverse of one of my Assman numbered LGAB's. it has wartime type tube hinge and domed/flat top rivets. The second pic is the reverse of Luud's Observers with open hinge block, wide, flat wire catch and spun rivets. These two examples could lead one to believe Assman made badges in the late 50's all the way thru the 70's, but then where would the "mid-made" badges by them be and what are their characteristics?

There simply aren't many Assman's around, but it seems odd to me that they would've made them in the late 50's, and either stopped production and then started again in the mid to late 60's, even into the 70's. I suppose it's possible, but it doesn't seem likely.

I don't think we can make firm conclusions at this point, but studies like this one help us get closer to the actual production timeline.

[Nigel N]

Hi Mike! As you say, much to be learnt i'm sure, one quick question......
Of the Assmann badges you own, or have seen, are the eagles and wreaths a match to S&L pieces???
-Nigel

[Mike Yokum]

Hi Nigel,

Here's a side by side shot of the LGAB's. Really no comparison in finish, burnishing, eagle type or anything really.

[LuckyLuudje]

It is much easier when I don't have to mention my thoughts this time and let you guys judge it.

I do hope that many people will post their S&L gliders here as well from early to late. As well as Observers in the Observer thread!
Than a trend can be seen and we could IMO make a better judgement for the production date.

Some Assmann parts seem identical to me as used by S&L while some Assmann parts are IMO made from a new working die.
Like the rarely seen wreath on the S&L Airgunner with thick round needle in the Observer thread. That wreath is IMO identical as used on the Assmann Observer.

I don't buy the story that there would be a 10-15 years difference in production time. Only because the hardware looks like used on late S&L's.

[Mike Yokum]

I don't buy the story that there would be a 10-15 years difference in production time. Only because the hardware looks like used on late S&L's.

That was EXACTLY the point I was driving at in my comments Luud. It makes NO SENSE whatsoever.

[Mike Yokum]

Hi Mike! As you say, much to be learnt i'm sure, one quick question......
Of the Assmann badges you own, or have seen, are the eagles and wreaths a match to S&L pieces???
-Nigel

Perhaps you were referring to Gliders Nigel. If so, I don't own an Assman Glider yet.

I only have the numbered LGAB's to compare at this point and they don't really compare.