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David Hiorth

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Does anyone have photos of the very late KVK II?

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    #1

    Does anyone have photos of the very late KVK II?

    I have searched for pics of the late KVK II, that have the suspension ring rotated 90 degres, with the opening of the ring facing the front. Can anyone provide good photos of such an example.

    I know they are late production and by most considered cr*p produced for the collectors market. But how late?

    Sometimes they can be found on medal bars, wich makes many collectors consider the entire medalbar to be a late "put together". Something I don´t believe is always true.....I for sure have avoided such bars in the past.

    Karl
    Tags: None
    #2
    Hi Karl!!
    I know which one you mean, but i dont own any, or have any photo's!
    The latest KVK2 i have is on the big Firemans medalbar i got from Vince, that one has the artificial dark patina, is riddled with die flaws but still has the normal style suspension ring, i'd date the bar, to about 1980 and probably that KVK to around the same, maybe very late 70's??
    I think the type you are interested in maybe even later??
    -Nigel
    sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

    Comment

      #3
      hi

      never seen one of these beforewouldn't mind seeing one of these too

      regards
      tom

      Comment

        #4
        Here you can see a medal bar with this kind of KVK.

        This specifik bar were once sold by Detlev Niemann and I missed it with a few seconds during one of his mad friday updates. I saved the pics and thought that it was forever lost in a collection, never to surface again.

        But just a few years ago, a fellow swede showed it on a swedish collectors forum

        This is THE bar of my dreams, which you might think is strange, as it features some late or very late 57er awards.

        However, the bar also includes two Swedish medals, one of them being the swedish homeguards silver merit medal.

        I´m a volunteer soldier and member of the homeguards and collecting these different medals is one of my "other" hobbies. So you might understand that a bar like this, with a mixture of 57er and swedish medals, is like a wet dream for me. Oh well, hopefully the current owner will get tired of it some day and take my offer.

        I admit that these late medals can look really bad, but I guess there were a market for veterans also during the 80s, not only collectors like us and that the veterans really didn´t care if the collectors of today would think that they made bad judgements when they bought medals for wear.

        I wonder if S&L is the producer of this KVK....well it must be??

        Karl
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          Hi Karl! Thanks for showing this bar, i've not seen any Swedish medals on a 57 bar before, so i can understand how you would love this one!!!
          As you said, later bars can, sometimes be poor when compared to the early ones, but some are still good, the one you show here looks great!!!
          The KVK is very interesting, as it seems not only does it have the dark patination, but it also seems like they have gone back to some kind of laquer finish, which really improves the look of the piece!!
          It would be great to get hands on with this bar, if it is later, then S&L should be the maker of the KVK, as they were the only maker still around!!
          Go on Karl, make the guy an offer he cant refuse!!!!!!!!!!!!
          -Nigel
          sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

          Comment

            #6
            fantastic bar i can see why you want it it looks like all the 57er peices on the bar are S&l the ost medal looks a lot like one but might be souval (can't see that well)

            regards
            tom
            ps the merit cross appears to have been added after the rest if you look at the difference in ribbon foldings

            Comment

              #7
              Karl,

              Thant medal bar is outstanding!! I can see why you would like it in your collection.

              Best
              Pierce

              Comment

                #8
                Super bar Karl and with your military service so directly related, it would indeed be a dream bar for you! I sincerely hope you are able to add it to your collection someday very soon.

                The wear on the Ost medal appears to be much greater than the other medals. This makes me think the vet either had these medals for a period of time prior to having the bar assembled or some similar scenario. The Ost has HEAVY wear compared to the others, while the Ost ribbon and all the ribbons look very clean and unsoiled.

                Tom makes a good point, as usual, that the BW Merit medal ribbon is not folded in the same manner as the others.

                None of these things diminishes the authenticity of the bar IMO, but they add some intrigue and mystery behind it's origin.

                I'm with Nigel, Karl, make the guy an offer he can't refuse.

                Comment

                  #9
                  The biggest misstake or problem on this bar, is actually the swedish medals, as the ribbons have been switched.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I have also noted that several bars with the Bundesverdienstkreuz also have late production run 57er medals.

                    My theory is that several veterans were in suitable age and had enough time spent in certain positions in society, to be targeted with awards of the bundesverdienstkreuz, during the 80s.

                    Then of course they wanted to wear their new high award together with their wartime awards. Which in many cases ment buying a batch of new 57er also.

                    Below is an example from my collection that you probably have already seen. But it shows the BW Verdienstkreuz together with a late production EK.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Good points Karl!!!
                      I also agree with Mike that on some of these later bars, the actual medals themselves can often be a mix of early and late!
                      Also interesting is the BVK on your "dream" bar, and the one on my firemans bar are the early type, not the later one with flat back!
                      -Nigel
                      sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Hi Guys, just looking thru my files, and i found this photo i'd forgotten about!!!
                        Its not the best, and not the biggest, so i guess its hard to say for sure, but does it look like an S&L??
                        Finish and quality dont look too great, so you would think it was late, but wether it is just a late S&L with the suspension ring mounted differently or a different maker?????????
                        -Nigel
                        57%20kvk2%20w%20swords%20merged.jpg
                        sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Thanks for the pic Nigel

                          It sure looks bad...but not as bad as I thought, when looking at it on "close" pic like this.

                          Karl

                          Comment

                            #14
                            The soft an thin finish of the wreath almost look like on the souval crosses.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi Karl, you've just given me an idea!!!017.gif
                              Do me a favour, and compare the Souval KVK2 on your latest bar, with a few S&L KVK2's you have on other bars, or loose, and let me know what you see, similarities, differences etc.!!
                              Thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!
                              -Nigel
                              sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

                              Comment

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