RK KvK w/s - extreme early

[LuckyLuudje]

Oke, this weeks addition is IMO a very interesting KC.
Also note the ribbon.

[LuckyLuudje]

Cross

[LuckyLuudje]

1939

[LuckyLuudje]

Notice the contours where the swass has been.

[LuckyLuudje]

compared to a "regular" kc.

[LuckyLuudje]

Some comparing details, notice the difference loop used.
The thick loop is used on a "regular" kc.

[LuckyLuudje]

ribbon details

[LuckyLuudje]

The lower ribbon is from a "regular" kc and has 19 white stitches.
The upper ribbon from the cross posted here has 22/23 white stitches.

[LuckyLuudje]

some details

[LuckyLuudje]

I noticed that the cross looks pretty similar as the one used in some early catalogues.
Especially the '9's in 1939.

[Nigel N]

Hi Luud!
Well, someone has to be the first to reply, and it looks like being me!!
When i looked at this RK earlier today, i thought "a de-nazified wartime S&L", but i read that S&L re-used their wartime reverse die (with 1939) to become their obverse die on their 57ers!
Now looking at your compare shots, and looking at my 57 version, the numbers on the RK posted here dont match, pebbling on the arms also seems different? So either its not S&L, or S&L used more than one die??
It appears to be a match to the one pictured in the wartime catalogue??
So i'm not 100% sure on maker, but i do believe it is a wartime piece, that has been de-nazified, and an early one too, i think most of the later war KVK Rk'S were zinc, which this is'nt.
The ribbon also appears to be wartime, the higher thread count is a good sign!!
I guess the real question is, when and by who was it de-nazified???
We can only guess...but it does'nt look like it was done by Grandpa in his shed!! But i'm not sure it was factory re-finished either?? My best guess was, the vet took it to a jeweller or similar and had it de-nazified so he could wear it again??
I also see it has a very thin suspension loop (when viewed from the side) the same as my new arrival.
I really hope some of the other guys comment too, as i think this is another very interesting piece, worthy of further study!!
-Nigel

[Seewolf]

For sure an interesting piece with an excellent quality and finish.

I to tend to a denaz original. The question now is why it has been denazified.....to sell and wear it as a regular 57er of "only" to hide the swaz?

When i look at the area where the swaz has been there´s for sure more work done than simply cutting away the swaz. Afier that the die has been reworked to add some pebbling...not similar to the frame pebbling but it has be done. So my opinion is that this could have been done ONLY in the facrory where this beauty came out.

For me there´s, at the moment, no other logical explanation for this piece.


To the different "1939" at the (now) avers. Why don´t thinking about another maker like Deschler? They made wartime ones and maybe had the skills to rework the die.
Think of the Deschler DKiG, which has the best quality of all IMO and would fit to the here shown quality.


I do not know if Deumer made wartime KvK, can´t regognize to read about that in a thread.....so IMO Deumer is out.


I like that piece, outstanding quality and i think this is a wartime piece converted by factory to sell and wear as regular 57er.


Now let´s see what the other say. Thanks Nigel, for answering first. It´s always easier to jump in after the first reply

[Nigel N]

I know Rudiger!!!
You could be right about it being a factory re-finish, the only thing that put me off that idea, was why did'nt they match up the pebbling better, using a dot pattern rather than the wavy pattern we see?? But like i say, you could well be right!!
As well as S&L and Zimmermann, Deschler were the other and i think main maker of these RK's, dont know if there were any others??
It might be a good idea to post this in the wartime section too??
-Nigel

[Seewolf]

the only thing that put me off that idea, was why did'nt they match up the pebbling better, using a dot pattern rather than the wavy pattern we see??

Simply because it was way easier to do and did the trick
It looked good, was easier to make and they didn´t had to build a new die in these times where Germany grew up.

Maybe i think too German but that´s our way Holding the costs as low as possible

[Nigel N]

Good business sense for sure Rudiger!! And it worked!!!!!
-Nigel