very early -early - mid - late - modern

[LuckyLuudje]

While I was reading some old threads that I missed the last 6 months, I noticed that some IMO late manufactored items are generally deemed early and also the other way around.

I think it will be handy if we all use a uniform method for putting an approxiimate date to a new form item.

I will show you my thoughts:
1957-1960: very early
1960-1963: early
1963-1967: mid
1967-1970: late
1970--now: modern

So let me hear your thoughts and till what date af manufactoring you consider them collectable.
I onlycollect till the mid sixties with only a few exeptions if an item came in a group with good provenance.

[Matthieu]

I would agree with you Luud, I would go up to mid production ....

[Mike Yokum]

This is very good Luud! I like the timeline you created for us very much.

Pieces with provenance are clearly the very, very best. Most of my collection is very early because I like pieces that even if there is no provenance, they are likely to have been owned by a veteran. I do have a few early pieces, one from David that I'm excited about and hope to show soon!

So, to sum up, provenance is the best, then very early and for me, early is as late as I choose to go, at least for now.

[Nigel N]

I pretty much agree with you luud, i might push the dates back a few years.....
Very early = 1958 - 1960
Early = 1961 - 1964
Mid = 1965 - 1970
Late = 1971 - late 70's
Modern 1980 onwards
I've got a few 70's EK's which are pretty good, and i would'nt put them in the same group as the horrible modern ones with the sandblasted frame and core painted after assembly!!
-Nigel

[ekhunter]

Timeline

At least for me personally, the timeline that I've always used/assumed is almost identical to Nigels'. But like I said, it's just a personal thing that was based on the quality and condition, especially, the later pieces that were being produced by S&L. Just my two cents!

[LuckyLuudje]

Interesting to see that there are indeed difference thoughts about it.

Because most people only collect the earlier items, I personally wouldn't want to stretch the timeline too far.
But it doesn't really matter what timeline we use.
Too avoid miscommunication I think it is easier if we all use the same timeline.

So lets see what the others think and if we can get a timeline where we all can work with.

[LuckyLuudje]

I've got a few 70's EK's which are pretty good, and i would'nt put them in the same group as the horrible modern ones with the sandblasted frame and core painted after assembly!!
-Nigel

I found another solution for your problem

1957-1960: very early
1960-1963: early
1963-1967: mid
1967-1970: late
1970-1980: modern
1980--now: modern crap

[vic007]

Hello

That is indeed a very interesting idea you launched, Luud.
There is a need for a uniform timeline.

Like all the reactions show, this will be easier said then done.
IMO there is already some kind of consensus about the terms we use (very early - early - mid - late). The difficulty lies imo to put every medal in the exact timeframe.

If i look at the first proposition, how do you determine whether a badge is made in 1962 or 1964? Or with the second: how do you determine if it is 1963 or 1965?
Of course there are a few characteristics that we use (pin, hinge, catch, ...) to get an idea.
However there are also transitional pieces with mixed setup.

IMHO i think it will be more interesting to expand the time periods to avoid the problem i just mentioned. For exemple:

- Very early: every badge with a pin that comes close to wartime ones (round, coke bottle, fluted, ...) (possible time period 1957 - 1959)
- Early: every badge with narrow catch and closed hinge (1960 - 1969)
- Late: every badge with broad catch and closed to open hinge (here the catch will determining whether it is late or early) (1970 - 1979)
- Modern: every other pieces that is later made as the ones above (period > 1980)

Of course these are just my 2 cents.



Best regards


stijn

[Nigel N]

Good ideas Stijn and Luud!!!!
As Stijn says, its very difficult to know where to draw the line between the different periods! But i think we all are thinking roughly the same!!
The only thing i've got against your original dates Luud, is the definition of "modern" I think some 70's pieces are not too bad, and theres a big difference between some of those, and the later crap that we all hate!!
Other than that, i'm pretty much with you!!!
Lets have some more opinions!!!!!!!
-Nigel

[Matthieu]

In order to establish the different period pieces, perhaps would be good idea to post some sort of "hardware timeline" by posting example pictures ??? IMO, I would find it difficult to distinquish a piece from 1963 to one from 1965 ...

[LuckyLuudje]

Stijn,
Without even going into the problems of dating an item by it's hardware alone, we probably use the same method.

The only difference is the period we think the hardware has been used.
Based on what I have seen sofar I believe that for example S&L started using the wider catch and open hinge MANY years before the 1970!

Nigel:
Modern doesn't mean bad.
I have a pretty modern car and it drives like crazy.
And with 1 liter of gasoline I can drive around 22 kilometers
My earlier cars couldn't even drive 15 km with a liter of gas.

But seriously, I have for example some modern stickpins and minichains.
I know that a few have been bought around 1980 as a replacement.
With picture provenance this modern stuff is for me as good as the very earliest items!
Modern, but it surely is not the modern crap you see everywhere!

[Seewolf]

Interesting how the opinions differ here
Good point Luud, that we maybe find a timeline that everyone accepts.

As i am an early production (well quality and crispy nice details on my face and body ) i would move the timelime a little bit more .....

1957-1960 = very early
1961-1965 = early
1966-1970 = mid
1971-1975 = late
since 1976/more 80s = modern
since 2000 = only crap

Problem is really how to date a piece 1965 = early or more 1966 = mid......some guys like me say that only very early and early ones are collected and no mid pieces.
It´s IMO absolut neccessary to build a time for every well collected piece. We need a bunch of pieces of DK´s, RK´s (more 2nd pattern, 1st pattern is clear), EK´s and so on.

That is much work to bring the pieces in the right line as there are often transitional pieces but that work has to be done.

We need a place where everyone post his, for example, S&L DKiG, without any comments like "Wow, nice, great piece....." only a line up of all DK´s. Then we can discuss in another thread which production date is every piece and then they are all put in one timeline thread (small comments allowed about typical flaws, colour starburst and so on.)

IMO that is the only right way