Was told this was a 57 Oakleaves.
Measures 20.15mm wide x 19.69mm high
Would welcome comments.
Thanx, Rick
Measures 20.15mm wide x 19.69mm high
Would welcome comments.
Thanx, Rick
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I think for S&L oaks the typical die flaw is missing but i am no expert on these. Let´s see what the other guys say
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From my reviewing other threads relating to the S&L oakleaves it appears that as time (production) went on the die flaws became more pronounced.
Might one then assume that where these don't exhibit the level of die degradation that some others (to varying degrees) exhibit, that these might be earlier?
RickComment
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Not from the period 1957 to 1960. It is a modern cast fake. The ribbon loop is also wrong.
PeterComment
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And these are not and never 1957 oak leaves, no matter, when they were produced.
UweComment
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HelloOriginally posted by speedytop View Post
Just to clarify Rick, what Uwe is saying, as the Oaks, Oaks with swords etc never carried any banned or proscribed symbols, there was no need to have a new form of these included in the laws of 1957. Therefore there are no 57 versions of these per se, only war time or post war made pieces.
However, (and I know Uwe will disagree with me on this), there are certain types of these post war made oaks etc that are being termed as 57 pieces by collectors as an easy means of identifying them against other post war made items. The reasoning behind this is purely down to particular styles/flaws commonly appearing with 57 new form RKs, and, or known to have been purchased during the early part of 57 production.
As regards your Oaks, I have to agree with the other comments that these are of a moden production.
Regards
DavidComment
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Copy that!
And "post war made pieces" are copies or fakes.Originally Posted by DavidM:
... there are no 57 versions of these per se, only war time or post war made pieces.
UweComment
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Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your comments. They are appreciated. As to Uwe's comment clarifying for me that "post war made pieces are copies or fakes." I have been around the turnip patch long enough to understand that. Thank you.
Had also posted these here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...0&goto=newpost where Leroy related:
"Rick,
I don't believe that these are cast from a later S&L set (i.e "1957 set"). Take a look at the Oakleaves posted in this thread in Posts 40-43, which I believe are early (as in wartime early) S&L pieces. If this set 'is' a casting (and I can't tell without having it in hand, but it might be), it came from something that preceded the later versions. They are S&L style, for sure.
Regards,
Leroy"
In any event, again, thank you all for taking the time to look at these & respond.
Rick C.Comment
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Rick sent these to me to take a closer look.
They are not cast, but are die-struck (although they have been highly polished or buffed, which really changed their appearance and which, without extremely close examination, would suggest to virtually anyone that they were cast). In the deepest recesses of the outer leaf cut-outs, you could see die striations, but they were so hard to visualize and get light into at first that I wasn't sure. The buffing just wasn't able to "get all the way in", although it came very close. Under high magnification, the pebbling detail was simply excellent, with no "cratering" or pitting whatsoever that I could see. Rick's jeweller had already told him they were silver and, although I could not test for that, I believe it based on what I was able to see and on the weight (8.26g).
The interesting thing to me is that the size and style of these Oaks matches unknown pieces in my files which have been in older collections for many, many years. More importantly,however, the pebbling pattern is an exact match (which cannot happen unless they came from the same die). Although there is no proof that they are wartime (and I told Rick clearly that I could not say that his set was wartime, either), they are very well made and are not recent fakes. The maker is unknown (although the style is much closer to S&L than, say, Godet). Could they be from an unknown maker of early 1957 Oaks? Sure they could. They could also be old, well-made, die-struck fakes. If they are either of these things, however, I would have expected to see more of them around than I have (and I have been looking for years).
Another interesting point with these is that, from time to time, you can buy the same style on German eBay. The eBay sets (and I bought one very cheaply just to look at some time ago) are not made from silver and are cast, not die-struck. In the casting process, the size ended up being very close, but virtually all detail of the pebbling was lost . I'm not sure how such a result is possible, but at least it's good to know that the copy "artists" may have gained in one area (similar size) but lost completely in another (detail
of small features). Perhaps if we have a metallurgist here, they may know how this is done.
In summary, then, Rick's set is very well made, with outstanding detail, and has "brothers" with identical pebbling pattern which have been around for a very long time. Copies of this type are available, but are of very much lower quality.
When were they made? Wartime? 50's? I don't know...but they are very nice, indeed.
I appreciate Rick sending these to me to look at. Just goes to show, I think, that sometimes we ALL reach conclusions about items shown here on the Forum which, in hand and after a much closer look, hold very pleasant surprises.Comment
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Myth busted......good for you RC!!!
Nice lookin' oaks there.......congrats...
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