Numbered LW PAB

[Mike Yokum]

These LW PAB's are a little like the balloon observers and Seekampfabz.
I like them as being a 57 issued item because it is IMO the closest you can possible get to an original.

Exactly right. The 57er's are at least real, issued awards. Can't say the same for the supposedly pre-45 "piles" as George would say.

WOOHOO! 1000 POSTS!!!

[old siagon]

Exactly right. The 57er's are at least real, issued awards. Can't say the same for the supposedly pre-45 "piles" as George would say.

WOOHOO! 1000 POSTS!!!

What I cant understand is that this badge was NEVER issued during the TR so why would S & L make a 57er version except for the collectors market?

With that said there is no reason to own this badge except to have it for what it is.....a copy of a copy of a dream.

This is coming from a guy who owns some copies of 57er badges like the Herr Paratrooper I just posted. I know it is not an early quality badge but as far as I am concerned it is a filler until I locate a real nice quality early badge.

What ever makes you happy but collecting a 57er copy of a TR badge which did not exist is where I draw the line. I would not own one.

Happy Hunting,
Vince

[Mike Yokum]

The numbered LGAB, LW PAB and numbered LW PAB were TR designed and authorized badges pre-1945, but were not physically awarded pre-1945.

Some very real urkundes or award documents exist, but there is no photographic evidence of the badges in wear and most hold that though authorized, none were physically created or issued. But, because they were authorized and awarded by paper citation pre-1945 they could be and were "reissued" in 1957 New Form version. CLICK HERE!

They are no dream and the frosting and burnishing on Luud's badge is early craftsmanship and not collectors market junk.

I hope this helps clear up why the 57er versions are very real and if early, are very collectible.

[old siagon]

The numbered LGAB, LW PAB and numbered LW PAB were TR designed and authorized badges pre-1945, but were not physically awarded pre-1945.

Some very real urkundes or award documents exist, but there is no photographic evidence of the badges in wear and most hold that though authorized, none were physically created or issued. But, because they were authorized and awarded by paper citation pre-1945 they could be and were "reissued" in 1957 New Form version. CLICK HERE!

They are no dream and the frosting and burnishing on Luud's badge is early craftsmanship and not collectors market junk.

I hope this helps clear up why the 57er versions are very real and if early, are very collectible.

Hi Mike,

After I wrote my last e-mail I looked in the 57er catalogue and it is pictured as a legitimate badge. However this does not change the fact that non were ever issued. Lets not split hairs, beside I did not refer to it as being junk. I just said i would not own one as it did not exist in the TR period. Thats my personal collecting criteria, not yours.
Cheers,
Vince

[Mike Yokum]

No splitting hairs Vince. Just trying to give as much info as possible to get a clear understanding so something can be learned. Learning is good!

"Junk" for collectors market pieces is MY word, and opinion of them, not yours my young friend.

[LuckyLuudje]

Hold on guys.

Before we continue the discussion, please make a search on the Forum on LW PAB's and you will encounter many threads like this:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&highlight=pab

If the criteria is a badge that has never been made (wich is still NOT proven), why collect for example 1957 balloon observers?

And I also want to remind you guys at the LW CCC that IMO never has been made wartime, but sure is a legit 57 item.

[LuckyLuudje]

I don't know if I say it correct, My English is not my 1th language.

LW PAB's are instituted and most likely issued wartime.
But there is no actual proof so far (like period pictures of the badge in wear) that the badge itself is awarded wartime.
Wich doesn't mean that it isn't so, still many people believe it is.

German is also not my 1st language, but when I read the regulations I think that for example the FJ personnal that recieved the a normal (numbered) PAB was allowed to wear the LW PAB if they were part of the LW.
But here I can be wrong, too many technical words I am not familiar with and are also not known in my translator.

So that is why I think they included them into the 57 regulations and why they also actually made them.

It could be an original rare worn item and it could just be a simple fake (wich I do not believe).

[Peter Wiking]

All the 1957 pieces are based on the before may 1945 instituted decorations. The Luftwaffe CCC for example was instituted november 1944. The decorations mentioned in this thread was a part of the "Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen" and was thus remanufactured as 1957 versions, regardless if they were actually awarded or manufactured before may 1945.

Peter

[Mike Yokum]

Thanks for helping to explain this situation gents.

If you look you will see I was posting at 4:14am local time after being at a local pub from 6pm til about 1am watching UFC 100. I was not exactly coherent and hope I didn't come off as too antagonistic. It certainly isn't my style and was not my intention.

[LuckyLuudje]

All the 1957 pieces are based on the before may 1945 instituted decorations. The Luftwaffe CCC for example was instituted november 1944. The decorations mentioned in this thread was a part of the "Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen" and was thus remanufactured as 1957 versions, regardless if they were actually awarded or manufactured before may 1945.

Peter

I always love the way how you can use so little words (whatever the content is) to make yourself clear.

Regardsless if I agree or not, Your opinion is always objective and highly valued and respected by me