Non S&L RK

[Franco]

Peter,
You missed out C.E.Juncker.There is the letter from them in 1958 to a collector in the U.S (shown on the forum) in which they state that they can supply KCs of WW2 from new dies and also the 57 type.
They also mention two or three other makers in Berlin producing badges.Whether they made crosses as well I dont know.There may have been more producers than anyone suspects.Which underlines my point that it is most unlikly that all bar one ceased at the same time.
Cheers

[Peter Wiking]

Franco
Juncker for sure existed well into the 1960's and was one of several producers of Bundesverdienstkreuz.

Regarding that letter please read the following:

"That entire letter was a creation using a computer. It was done by a disgruntled person who had an axe to grind over proper markings of Juncker products. I believe this came about when the fake L/12 marked 2nd Class Spanges to the Iron Cross came out in fake Frank and Reif envelopes. The fake Juncker letter was to legitimize the fake spange/envelope combination.b

I wish to thank this unknown person, as well as the lemmings who followed him, as knowledgeable collectors acquired L/12 Knight's Crosses when this furor erupted, and those with little knowledge of the subject of Knight's Crosses jumped on the bandwagon declaring all L/12 Knight's Crosses fake."

Bob Hritz



Peter

[Dave Kane]

Franco...if you were a guard dog you would be a prize!!!! You don't let go!

There's a point that you must however...please refer to:

Der Bundesminister des Innern
I A 1 - 11965 A
Herstellungsvorschrift fur das RITTERKREUZ des EISERNEN KREUZES
Nr. 22 August 1957

Very specific rules regarding size, weight and materials for the introduction of the 'new form' Cross.

[Franco]

Interesting point Dave,
They obviously set out with good intentions.So how did it end up with S&L peddaling light weight badly finished crosses?
Someone wasnt enforcing the rules.
Cheers Franco

[Dave Kane]

Interesting point Dave,
They obviously set out with good intentions.So how did it end up with S&L peddaling light weight badly finished crosses?
Someone wasnt enforcing the rules.
Cheers Franco

Franco, in the early years...say, '57-67 anyone who had the entittlement could get one. There were a handful of men who many years later learned that they in fact were RKT and may have received an inferior quality Cross. That said however, the 'early' Crosses were beautiful, well finished and mirrored the war time Cross in quality. A Knight's Cross holder was well respected and as you know an organization was built around them.

Logic would suggest that those who wanted a '57 Cross would have snapped them up very quickly and not waited 12, 15 or 20 years. Utilizing logic again, it was about this time (mid 60's) that the collecting of WWII German (anything) began to skyrocket and the 'demand' followed........a demand forced by the COLLECTORS for what best can be described as REPRODUCTIONS.

[Franco]

Hi Dave,
I see the point you are making.I would just add that the rot set in when the last of the craftsmen retired and their place was taken by unskilled and uncaring workers.However that still leaves the question of the guidlines for manufacturing crosses.These seem to have been forgotten.Probably because there were no longer any veteran customers,just collectors.
Cheers Franco

[DavidM]

Hi Dave,
I see the point you are making.I would just add that the rot set in when the last of the craftsmen retired and their place was taken by unskilled and uncaring workers.However that still leaves the question of the guidlines for manufacturing crosses.These seem to have been forgotten.Probably because there were no longer any veteran customers,just collectors.
Cheers Franco

Hello

I think you are right there. Once it became a purely commercial venture aimed at the collectors market, quality, in all respects, went out of the window.

As an aside, and as an example of the 57 instructions being ignored, I read somewhere recently that the original manufacturing instructions for the 57 RK specified that the core could only be made from iron. No other material was permitted. As we know there are quite a few 57 RKs out there without iron cores.

Regards
David

[Franco]

David,
Quite a few without iron centers? If you can find one with an iron center,your lucky.
Ive got 8 and only 2 with iron.
Cheers