Little advice needed on an 1957 rk

[HeerDoctor]

Hi all, this is my first message on this forum and I hope it will not be my last since you folk seems a nice community that don't judge other for loving "special" thing . My mother even believed I was with those "neo-nazi".

Just a little description of myself, I am 19 year old and I am studying to become a doctor, Heer doctor is actually a nickname that my friend gave me this summer and I love it :P. I got the passion for the german medal by watching the movie Downfall some month ago. I am a french canadian and never really talked in english before, so please don't pay attention to my grammar :P. All the medal I got so far come from ebay. I read several book on the subject and I set a goal to get a 1939 knight cross before 2010 .

Now back on the subject, I was surfing on the web and I saw a 1957 knight cross with oakleave and sword and ask the seller for more picture. He sends them pretty quickly, but what I saw on them was weird. Oakleave with sword are probably fake since they are stamped 925 behind. Correct me if I am wrong, but my book said that the german manufacturer usually stamped 800, 900 or 935. The cross look like a 3 pieces and its got a 800 stamped on it, but the detail are weird. I just want to be sure the cross is real before bidding on it. I thanks you guy in advance for all the answer. Here the pictures:

[Grant Broadhurst]

The cross is a late manufature one nothing spectacular , as for the oaks with the 925 stamp on them a lot of the " big " german dealers sell these as legitimate 1957 pieces but the stamp is an English stamp for sterling silver so i avoid these totally and IMHO are not 1957 awards .

The cross you can get any time on Ebay and the oaks i,d avoid .

Regards

Grant

[bratwurstdimsum]

I agree mostly with Grant, do you see how the paint creeps up on the edge of the beading on the reverse, this is manufacturing at its laziest, they paint these now as fully constructed rather than as separate pieces like "they used to"

This 925 thing, well, it is a British standard no doubt but Gordon Williamson in his Iron cross book seems to mention that they still could be legit S&L manufacture but this is still debatable. They are nasty looking swords to be sure compared to earlier ones (I would know, I have one ). Have a look at my thread where we discuss this:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=124061

[Okrach]

Hi,

I agree with a sousage (Bratwurst - weißt du aber was das ist oder?) since I see no name

Well the '925' mark is a really debatable thing. My '57 swords are as well stamped with this mark (double stamp - one on the oaks the second on the blade) and they came with a nice worn '57 RK. Originality of the corss leaves no doubts (see the picture) How to explain the worn swords?... RK holder travelled to England to buy an extra decoration for himself - I doubt it...

[Okrach]

'800' MM on the cross frame - just for the reference

[Okrach]

and swords - NOTE the double stamped '925' mark. The double maker mark is not a common, is it? Were the swords added (soldered) to the oaks later on? or was it a standard procedure of double stamping?

Bratwurst's swords are stamped only with one '925' located on the one of the blades .... (see the link he pasted)

[bratwurstdimsum]

Very nice dipping eye cross Okrach, I must admit I don't know what to make of your name either Call me Brat or Jeff...

[Okrach]

Very nice dipping eye cross Okrach, I must admit I don't know what to make of your name either Call me Brat or Jeff...

Nice to meet You JEFF

Well, my name has been always given after the nice blue word 'Regards'. It reads Tomasz (Thomas in the most western countries but I prefer the original spelling) I would have used my true name instead of my nickname but in Poland the names are really long and there was no place for it

Okrach comes from my true name (Okraszewski) and it is a nickname given to me by my collegues during my studies.

[bratwurstdimsum]

ok I KNOW we are off topic but my name comes from love of chinese dim sum (or Yum Cha) and Debrechner/Bratwurst sausages

[Okrach]

I know I know...

Ok let's come back - Herr Doktor - may I ask for some more detailed pictures of the swords reverse? (if possible of course...)

And just a piece of advice - before pasting images - can You simply set the resolution not exceeding 700pix? (I hate horizontal rolling )

Thanks in advance

[Grant Broadhurst]

Well the '925' mark is a really debatable thing. My '57 swords are as well stamped with this mark (double stamp - one on the oaks the second on the blade) and they came with a nice worn '57 RK. Originality of the corss leaves no doubts (see the picture) How to explain the worn swords?... RK holder travelled to England to buy an extra decoration for himself - I doubt it...

To me there is nothing to debate ?

All the 925 stamped RK,s and Oaks were made in England and sold ( or made under contract ) to S & L who then sold these to outlets and dealers as collectors pieces . So your RK holder probably had either a wartime set of Oaks or an early 1957 set he mislaid and therefore went to a jewellers and bought himself a late 925 set .

I have never seen an early RK or set of oaks/swords with the 925 English sterling silver mark only late collectors pieces .

[Grant Broadhurst]

If the Rk holder is still around , maybe you could contact him and ask him when he got them ?

[bratwurstdimsum]

All the 925 stamped RK,s and Oaks were made in England and sold ( or made under contract ) to S & L who then sold these to outlets and dealers as collectors pieces . So your RK holder probably had either a wartime set of Oaks or an early 1957 set he mislaid and therefore went to a jewellers and bought himself a late 925 set .

I have never seen an early RK or set of oaks/swords with the 925 English sterling silver mark only late collectors pieces .

Nice snippet of information, and the irony! A German contract firm contracting a conquering nation's (IMHO) poor craftmanship to produce a German combat award to sell to its "defeated" vets!

Jeff

[Okrach]

If the Rk holder is still around , maybe you could contact him and ask him when he got them ?

No chance to do that

[WARLORD]

I think I can be of some help. S&L are producing KC .925 silver at their works in Ludenshied. They supplied the Daughter of Baron Von MAERCKEN with a Cross, 1st Class and 2nd class in the 1957 form. The quality of the KC is very good and the blacking is done correctly.