Luftwaffe Flak badge 1957 (2 versions)

[robert60446]

That is actually very interesting to see! Now in which context does this put a swastika'ed Flak badge I have, of which I assumed it could be Steinhauer & Lück (your related 57 badge marked with the small "o" confirms this)? Finish (bubbling) and material (zinc) seem to be period, but could as well be early post war?

Also interesting: the soldered on eagle pilot and glider badges with that same hinge are then Steinhauer & Lück as well, as a logical consequence. Are all of these badge WITH swastikas post 57 S&L badges or actually pre 45? Does anybody have a hint?

Frank,

You are opening the Pandora’s Box here. Based on the research done by our friends for RK’ s, there is no doubt in my mind that S&L was fooling around with badges in post 1945 era as well. Just please think about it. If they saved the dies for RK’s then they saved the dies for badges and lower grades awards as well. From the very beginning it was huge demand for collectibles between the GI’s. Why not to make few extra $? However it is my personal opinion only.

[Philips]

Undoubtedly all the shown badges have identical pins. But I am assured that forms for manufacturing badges were others are made, new. And then the eagle holds a swastika in the left leg (it in a bottom), and on badges on 1957 below already right leg of an eagle.

[Frank Heukemes]

If they saved the dies for RK’s then they saved the dies for badges and lower grades awards as well.

Dear Robert,

I think the problem is a bit different in comparison to the RKs. If the badges in this thread are post 1945, then S&L had to create these dies post 1945, because there would be no evidence that they made pilot's badges, P/O badges, Flak badges, and glider badges pre 45. So, it was not a matter of "keeping" the dies.

Any more thoughts about all these badges?

[robert60446]

Dear Robert,

I think the problem is a bit different in comparison to the RKs. If the badges in this thread are post 1945, then S&L had to create these dies post 1945, because there would be no evidence that they made pilot's badges, P/O badges, Flak badges, and glider badges pre 45. So, it was not a matter of "keeping" the dies.

Any more thoughts about all these badges?

Dear Frank,

Not necessarily. S&L could acquired these dies from other manufacturer and only use their “pin and catch” setup to complete the badge manufacturing process. It looks like from the very begging of the post war era, S&L was “in the game” of selling awards on the black market. These guys knew what is “hot” and the <st1 ="">P/O</st1>, Flak and glider badges were hot. Dies creating process takes some time, so the easiest way is to buy them…But this is one of my many theories only…<o =""></o>

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Robert,

I do not think they bought the dies, at least not the pilot, P/O and Flak ones, because they are of unique design, not comparable to any other badges that existed pre 1945. If you check eagles and wreathes closely, you will see that.

[robert60446]

Dear Frank,

I took your advice and I did check the series of P/O badges for the design similarities. Yes, you are correct. There are no common points between them, so it looks like S&L made these dies on their own…Frank, more we keep talking about this, more S&L looks guilty like hell…Now the logic tells me that they continued the production of the “old design” badges as well after 1945…And here I have probably the most important question: Frank with your hand on the heart, can you tell the difference between S&L made badge pre 1945 and post 1945?<o =""></o>

[Frank Heukemes]

Frank with your hand on the heart, can you tell the difference between S&L made badge pre 1945 and post 1945?

For some badges, this is possible. I have held a post war S&L night fighter clasp, where it was quite obvious that it was made post war AND I had some lead that it was bought post war from S&L in the seventies.
For the pilot, P/O, glider and Flak in this thread, I cannot say. It would be premature to say these are all post war. While it seems unlikely that S&L has produced these badges pre 1945, we cannot 100% exclude that. Patina and finish on some of these (look at the Bob Hritz pilot) look very believable pre 45. But would we be able to tell the difference today if it was made 1955?