How to identify -

[eindecker2]

Hello once agian - is it possible, I am sure that it is, to identify the date or period of a badge or medal by the ataching device. I have seen / heard of pin back and clutchpin devices - was one used exclusively during WW2 ond so forth. I know its a basic question, but it will help me find what I wnat to get. Many thanks

Hello once agian - is it possible, I am sure that it is, to identify the date or period of a badge or medal by the ataching device. I have seen / heard of pin back and clutchpin devices - was one used exclusively during WW2 ond so forth. I know its a basic question, but it will help me find what I wnat to get. Many thanks

You can narrow down the period of manufacture and sometimes by knowing the manufacturers techniques you can tell. For example they had clutchback badges during the late 1930's however they were very seldom used except on collar devices until the mid-40's. But there are many 100% original WWII AAF wings with clutchbacks. Narrowing it down to manufacturer can help. For example Josten made clutchback wings during WWII that are very good quality other manufacturers such as Meyer didn't use clutches until after the war. A couple tell-tales (that you may or may not already know so forgive me if I'm educating the educated!) are that numbers were not used on US badges until post WWII...markings such as 1E or 22M (G.I. on a wing is not a number that's General Insignia. Early on they used a sort of odd flag on a post emblem.). Also if you take a loop to the mountings on either a pinback or clutchback wing you can see some signs of jewelers solder. The modern wings & fakes use and electroplating method that leaves no residue. Sometimes you have to look close but it's there on an early badge. I have to say that at the recent SOS I encountered more fake wings and paratrooper badges than real ones. To the point that I got disgusted looking and left with only a couple wings. Knowledge is power and you can still tell the good from the bad but the 'expletive deleted' crooks are gaining.

[Allan H.]

(G.I. on a wing is not a number that's General Insignia. Early on they used a sort of odd flag on a post emblem.).... I have to say that at the recent SOS I encountered more fake wings and paratrooper badges than real ones. To the point that I got disgusted looking and left with only a couple wings. Knowledge is power and you can still tell the good from the bad but the 'expletive deleted' crooks are gaining.

Andy, first of all, I have to say EXCELLENT response, as your descriptions are spot on in reference to clutches used on WWII insignias. The clutchback AAF wings you refer to began to see use as a "graduation wing" in 1943- you know, the ones handed out after completion of training. For a soldier to have a nice pinback example means that he probably bought an example from a jeweler or from the PX.
As for the odd sign design, which GI uses on the backs of their insignia today- I believe that this was the logo for "Bell Trading Post" and if you put a loop to the design, there is certainly a bell on the sign.
As for your final comment about the fake jump wings at SOS- Amen brother! I took a couple of newer collectors through the riker mounts at SOS and had PLENTY of fodder for showing them fake jump wings.
I was amazed at the number of 1960's era wings that had had the clutch posts removed and a pin and catch affixed. The SOBs also touched the Letter number stamps on the reverse with silver solder or buffed the markings down.
When I started collection jump wings in the early 80's, nobody cared about them. I went broke at the 1988 ASMIC convention when I (stupidly) offered $20 each for pinback sterling examples. Today, a BB&B marked jump wing can bring as much as a seven day cruise to the Bahamas!
Allan

As for the odd sign design, which GI uses on the backs of their insignia today- I believe that this was the logo for "Bell Trading Post" and if you put a loop to the design, there is certainly a bell on the sign.

Thanks Allan,
Any chance you can put up a pic of the Bell Trading Post hallmark, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one but I've never seen it in print that the funky flag on a post hallmark was Gen. Ins. Never too old to adjust an old opinion! FYI I'm looking for an original older version of the Air Assault badge awarded to the guys in the 65 period.
Andrew

[Allan H.]

The infamous Bell Trading Post signage. A buddy tells me that General Insignia bought them out in the 1960's.
Allan

Thanks Allan,
Any chance you can put up a pic of the Bell Trading Post hallmark, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one but I've never seen it in print that the funky flag on a post hallmark was Gen. Ins. Never too old to adjust an old opinion! FYI I'm looking for an original older version of the Air Assault badge awarded to the guys in the 65 period.
Andrew