Old US flag

[Military Trader]

In the early 90s a guy I know would put out newspaper ads for militaria. When he didn't want the item he'd let me go pick it up. I got this flag from an old vet at his home. He told me he was a corpsman and that he brought this flag with him to Cape Glochester (New Britain Islands). he said that he gave it to a marine officer to put up in their area. He had a tear in his eye as he told me about it and said he was getting old and had no one to pass it on to.

I either didn't get the unit info in writing or have long since lost it but anyway I thought you all might like to see the flag

[oldflagswanted]

four grommet 48 star US flag ???

...I got this flag from an old vet at his home. ...
thought you all might like to see the flag

Hello MT:
Flag is a US Navy Yard made ensign, standard issue to all ship
flag lockers during WW2. Most were marked MI (Mare Island)
1943, 1944, 1945, use of four grommets is the USN fab spec ID.
Such flags are not rare as the Mare Island Yard sail loft alone
made some 70,000 flags a month during the war for fleet use.
These often sell online for around $50 to $100 in good shape.
.............. OLDFLAGSWANTED .............

[Military Trader]

The only discernable marking I can read is a large "10" There may be other markings that have faded over time. The timeline of production fits in with his story I suppose. I paid very little for the flag and it's obviously in relic condition.

Thaanks for the info.

[checkit]

I had an identical example that the CO removed from his Destroyer Escort when it was decomissioned at the end of the war. The sea can be rough on a flag.

[oldflagswanted]

about USN flag sizes ???

The only discernable marking I can read is a large "10"
There may be other markings that have faded over time.
The timeline of production fits in with his story I suppose.
I paid very little for the flag and it's obviously in relic condition.
Thaanks for the info.

MT:
The standard WW2 USN issued to the fleet US National Ensign
(flag) was the number "10" ( 2.9 by 5.51 feet ) size. Thus the
marking on your flag. Example shown in use on mast top, below.
............. OLDFLAGSWANTED ..............
.........................

[Mr.Jerry D]

I have one marked "US Navy Ensign 11" hoe many dofferent sizes were there?

PS- I LOVE the history and well flown shape of that flag~!

[oldflagswanted]

US National flag military sizes ???

I have one marked "US Navy Ensign 11" hoe many dofferent sizes were there?
PS- I LOVE the history and well flown shape of that flag~!

Hello MJD:
Twelve U.S. National Ensign (flag) sizes as follows:
1. 20x38 feet ---> Army fort parade ground size
2. 19x36.10 feet ---> battleship at anchor stern flown size
3. 14.35x27.27 feet
4. 12.19x23.16 feet
5. 10x19 feet ---> Army size
6. 8.94x16.99 feet
7. 5.14x9.77 feet
8. 5x9.50 feet ---> Army size
9. 3.52x6.69 feet
10. 2.90x5.51 feet ---> standard top mast ship size
11. 2.37x4.50 feet
12. 1.31x2.49 feet ---> PT & Sub size at sea
.......... OLDFLAGSWANTED ..........

[oldflagswanted]

about seen service flags ???

I had an identical example that the CO removed from his Destroyer Escort
when it was decomissioned at the end of the war. The sea can be rough on a flag.

Hello checkit:
Indeed such "seen service" flags can be even better collecting wise
than mint condition examples, especially when documented to ship
use. Here is one such flag from a ship with superb WW2 service from
Atlantic escort duty, Pacific Doolittle Raid, Guadalcanal, Solomons,
Carolines, Marshalls, assault on Pityiliu Island Admiralties, a fighter
direction ship and did bombardment at various landings such as at
Palau, the Philippines and Okinawa, rescued 194 men from the
torpedoed Cruiser Houston (CL-81), did Saipan radar picket duty.
Decommissioned, 4 February 1947, and sadly sold for scrap in 1974.
---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Grayson_(DD-435)
................ OLDFLAGSWANTED ................

[Military Trader]

Thank you Old Flags Wanted for the wealth of info about flags -- very interesting. I did have a question -- From the pictures posted mine (the original flag posted) looks like the other sea flown flags (on board ship). Could that one , do you think, have had similar damage flying on an island mast or do you think this one was taken down after the weathering? Maybe the vet was mixed up -- maybe he took it directly off a ship as a souvernier -- I couldn't see a marine officer hoisting a flag with sea damage. Or could land damage a flag like that?

[oldflagswanted]

worn U.S. Ensign origin ???

Thank you Old Flags Wanted for the wealth of info about flags --
very interesting. I did have a question -- From the pictures posted
mine (the original flag posted) looks like the other sea flown flags
(on board ship). Could that one , do you think, have had similar
damage flying on an island mast or do you think this one was taken
down after the weathering? Maybe the vet was mixed up -- maybe
he took it directly off a ship as a souvernier -- I couldn't see a marine
officer hoisting a flag with sea damage. Or could land damage a flag
like that?

MT:
In my ~40 years of collecting old flags, most I've encountered with
very severe wear (50% plus), such as yours, were those flown on
ships at sea. In fact I believe the flag raised by the USMC at Iwo Jima
was also a USN ship's locker ensign, and it too has some mountain top
use end flap wear (see below), but not as much as some ship flown
examples I've seen. So I would suspect your flag was saved from
disposal after shipboard sea use, and then it became a souvenir. I
obtained a couple such flags myself, as gifts, from the DD-951 U.S.S.
C.Turner-Joy crew (of Vietnam War Gulf of Tonkin fame) - they gave me
to be disposed of sea worn "seen service" flags, better than new IMO.
................. OLDFLAGSWANTED ...............

[oldflagswanted]

more about USN Yard made Ensigns ???

...The timeline of production fits...

MT:
If your flag has zig-zag sewn on cotton stars it is likely
early WW2, later flags had heavy sceen printed stars - a
stiff paint like feel. Rarest Ensigns are battleship size.
.......... OLDFLAGSWANTED ..........

[Mr.Jerry D]

OFW-

Does your numbering sequence correspond with the flag marking size?

I have a few flags marked PQMD that don't state a size that I believe were Garrison Army use, and the navy ones seem to have the "ensign" size #. Also are they usually all grommeted in the same way? ( i.e. 4, or at least more than 2)

Thanks!

[oldflagswanted]

size numbers and grommets ???

OFW-
Does your numbering sequence correspond with the flag marking size?
I have a few flags marked PQMD that don't state a size that I believe
were Garrison Army use, and the navy ones seem to have the "ensign"
size #. Also are they usually all grommeted in the same way? ( i.e. 4, or
at least more than 2) Thanks!

MJD:
Yes, largest U.S. Ensign is size #1, smallest #12. PQMD being US Army
didn't use the USN size numbers on their header markings, and often used
ring mounts rather than grommets. Four grommet use makes the flag USN
Yard made for sure, but two grommet variations do exist when later war metal
conservation rules kicked in, and as well on the smallest USN size #12, as four
grommets didn't fit well on the much shorter #12 header span, see below.
....................... OLDFLAGSWANTED .......................

[Mr.Jerry D]

Thanks !
You never cease to amaze me with the depth and breadth of your flag knowledge!

[oldflagswanted]

flag knowledge ???

Thanks !
You never cease to amaze me with the depth and breadth of your flag knowledge!

MJD:
Thanks for your kind words, always nice to be appreciated. Any
expertise I've acquired about this subject came from my ~40 year
focus on mostly just flags, of all nations and periods, my nitch so
to speak. What amazes me about flags is the skill and dedication
of all those mostly ladies who made these works of art, my bravo!
to them all everywhere, from Polish nuns, to those of the PQMD.
.............. OLDFLAGSWANTED ..............