A Family Heirloom from before American Revolution

[Ty Smith]

A Family Heirloom from before American Revolution

Few of us are lucky to have a passed down family war relic that a grandfather or great-grandfather. My family in Virginia dates back to the early 1600s just after the first English settlement in Jamestown. I have nothing except this one unique and very special item. This is a gunpowder gourd that has been passed down through the generations since 1740, over 260 years. A gourd is a fruit/vegetable that people dried and used as a tool or utensil. This was dried and hollowed out to carry gunpowder. It was first used by my Great-Great-..... grandfather Geo McDaniel in the 1740s who fought in the French and Indian Wars of 1689-1763 and the American Revolution 1775-1781. It was secondly named to the son/grandson Geo McDaniel who fought American Indians in the expansion west into Ohio and now Tennessee, 1821. Finally named to Jno, McDaniel 1834 who fought in the American civil war. It is believed that the plaque was added to the gourd after the civil war. During my lifetime the gourd did a tour at the Smithsonian in Washington and is considered an unique and rare artifact of Early American history. Here are a few pictures nothing too exciting, but this has really seen some action, over 260 years. I wish it could talk. Today it is fragile but in perfect condition.

[Ty Smith]

Close up of names..

[McCulloh]

Niiice! Are you a cousin of Rick's?

[Ty Smith]

Hi Jeff, Don't think so. Who is Rick?

[McCulloh]

Rick Lundstrom-he's 13th generation Puritan, but you never know. He's a professional geneologist, so can probably trace 13th cousin 6 times removed etc. to you all.
My people were in New Amsterdam, Maine and Baltimore.

[Ty Smith]

I would like to talk to him. I was able to track my family back on my mothers side to England prior to the 1600s. I had two other lines that went back to the Jamestown settlement. I had at least two ancentors that fought in the American Revolution and a few more in the American Civil War. I found the geneology study frustrating and confusing.

[Rick Research]

Tell me about it! But at least the English have the best records... between property disputes and suing/executing each other all the time!

My roots go as far back as is literally possible... all off of one single thoroughly documented by modern professionals "threads." I can name, thanks to being descended from a sibling of Rutherford B. Hayes' ancestor (it is easy as pie to link yourself back off a U.S. Presidential line... Burke's, Debrett's etc "do" them every time a new one gets elected) TWO ancestors who were at the battle of Châlons-sur-Marne, stopping Attila the Hun in ... 451.

New Englanders and Southerners tended to come from different parts of England, and emigrated for different reasons... but go back far enough and "everybody" is descended from one of the medieval kings. Nothing statistically improbable about that, and none of the snooty phony Victorian vanity claims either... it is a simple matter of out of 8 million billion ancestors, the only ones who ARE traceable at 500+ years remove were the aristocrats. That and the English system where only the eldest inherited a title, so you could (and most did) go from being a Royal Highness to mending shoes in 4 or 5 generations.

So PM me with exact names, dates, places of what you have on the "Other Side of the Pond" and I'll see what can possibly be linked.

Alllll my roots, and not one blessed thing in my possession from before 1914. Too many generations of "neat" housewives!!!

[Ty Smith]

Hi Rick, I would appreciate your help. I did some work with it but came up to a deadend.

I have two lines that I did most of my searching for, One was the name Reeves (I think they changed the name when they came from England) the other McDaniel, Reeves I know was from England and was upperclass. They were big land owners in Virginia in the 1600s and 1700s.

There was another English name that I had a deadend on.

I'll send you an e-mail as soon as I get home and get the info together.

[Rick Research]

Locations are vital-- shire, town, etc as well as specific dates. "Reeves" derives from that job title, so it isn't specific to a single traceable place origin, like every single living Slocum in the world today.

McDaniel I will already say thot och Ay kinnae doo... for thar's a Scootsmun or an Ulster-laddie, and my experience is only England itself.

[paddywhack]

its actuly amazing what you can find out about your family! i found out that my family the mcdonnells came from scotland to ulster as paid merciaery(???) to fight the irish uprising in the 16th century! also one of my ancesters was with wolf tone during the rebelion in the 17th century and we have a VERY VERY fragile letter from him addressed to my ansecter! i actuly cant touch it cos its not in the best of condition! also its intresting that my grandad survyed and told the goverment of the 40s and the 50s what parks and stuff to buy in dublin!! so there you go anyway!!!
still a nice peice you got there with even better history!

[Rick Research]

All you need is ONE "lucky break" and you can go back forever. And when a "pro" has ALREADY done all the work in print and all you have to do is tack your own line on,,,

The closest to a "relic" I can find for MY bunch is this "throne" made for Governor Winthrop of Hartford, Connecticut upon his return with the Royal Charter of 1662 (the one hidden up the oak tree later) by my 10 times great grandfather Thomas Spencer, Senior. Baptized in Stotfold, Bedfordshire March 29, 1607, he died in Hartford, CT September 11, 1687. Sergeant of militia, town constable, and turner (chairmaker), his family and those rather more well known Spencers (yes, those ) as well as the Spencer-Churchills (I've got six blood links to Sir Winston all from Connecticut via his mom) are directly linked.

This is from one of Wallace Nutting's 1920s "colonial revival" books. In some museum, somewhere! Wish I could put MY hands on something made by my ancestor's hands... 341 years ago!

[McCulloh]

"Reeve" was the high medieval word for "Manor Manager" or "Gaffer". The name comes from all over England and is not tied to a specific location (like many names of villages).
The MacDonnels, or MacDonalds or O'Donnals/O'Donnals are all part of the clans that came from western Scotland and were under the Lordship of the King of Dalreida. later, he became the Lord of the Isles, the Laird of the Macdonalds.
There was always (still is) heavy cross pollination between western Scotland and Ulster. My family, which I trace back to Ardwell (via Ulster) had manors on both sides of the water. North Down and Armagh have always been more "Scottish" than "Irish" although if you go back 500 years there's little cultural difference.
Another mercenary Scottish name that became irish is Gallagher-which means "Gallowglass"-a type of sword used Landsknecthe style @1100-1600.

[paddywhack]

actuly that does tie in cos i know that my great great grandad did actuly come from Armagh and we still have reletives who still live there!(and they own a realy realy nice big hotel which are family gets to stay in for free from time to time!!! )
iv always found famil history and stuff a real intresting subjet! i fully intend to research it more!!

[McCulloh]

The Belfast Linen Hall has complete records going back to the O'Niel Lordship. It's worth a visit-especially as car bombs aren't going off outside it anymore.
By the way Rick-there's a new Bio out on Governor Winthrop. I think your chair is at the Yale Commons.

[Ty Smith]

For Rick.

I will be sending you a PM soon with all the details. But the names that trace back into early England are:

Reeves (in America) or Rives (before they came)
Morton
Spencer

According to the book "Reliques of the Rives" which has been passed down to me. ( I was the first to read it in years) my line goes to William Rives of Virginia (1636 to 1695 ) Son of Timothy Rives of Oxford City ( 1588-1643 ) son of Richard Rives (1547-?) son of John Rives (1514-1549) (mother Amye Harvey) Son of Robert Rives 1490-1551 of Randleston adn Damory court co Dorset.
1490 that is as far as I can go for this line.

Morton and Spencer I know fought in the American Revolution but I haven't been successful in getting info prior to them in the Americas in 1700s. i'm going to send you the rest of the info on that.

It appears the other line is French - Flournoy, who settled in Virginia prior to the American Revolution.

The owners of the gourd, the McDaniels is a differnet line. Not English I guess.

More info to come. My grandmother was given the gourd the other item from the family was a petrified apple. Not wood but an APPLE !!. That was lost, I guess, but I do have an old news paper article about it.