USAF F4 "A" Flight Patch - Era of Use?

[GLM]

Hi guys,

Here's another Air Force patch for the Air Force guys to help me with. I'm assuming this is an F4 Phantom, but does the "A" really designate "A Flight" or something else? Anyone know when this patch might have been made or used? It's on twill and looks US made to me, but I've been wrong before. It measures 5" top to bottom, so most likely a flight jacket patch, right? Any help is very much appreciated!

Thanks,
Gary

[GLM]

Reverse

[GLM]

No ideas on this one? Lee, Andy, VerKuilen, guys?

Gary

[historyguy]

Well I have a few comments, first of all, nice patch. I did not see this when you first posted it. I would lean towards 1960s (maybe into early 1970?). I'm stumped on manufacture-- USA, or possibly Japan?

I would lean towards this being for a ''party suit,'' but some pilots did wear patches like this on their flight clothing.

Also, I would submit this is for a an F-4A, rather than "A Flight," based on similar patches. I know the Navt got 45 or so F-4As in the early 60s, but I don't know how long they were in service.

I'd be interested to hear what the others have to say about this patch.

[Lee Ragan]

I think Historyguy is right about the vintage. It is probably 1960's or 1970's. I would say the "A" signifies "A" Flight of some squadron. I have many flight patches that are identified by a letter. A good place to look for this is www.usafpatches.com. I'd bet you will even find variations of this patch and it very well could have been used by multiple squadrons.
Good luck with getting more info.

[GLM]

Thanks Andy and Lee!

Andy - Were there top view silouette changes to the Phantom that could determine an A from, say, a D model? A close friend I worked with was a radar mechanic on, I believe, the USAF D or E model at Danang AFB in 1971-72. From the impression I got from him, the only differences in the models was the radar dome (chin?) on the nose? I've probably got that wrong, but thought I'd ask. BTW - To me, it looks pretty much like a well made US patch, but I've certainly been wrong on that before. The gray backing to the twill looks awful strange?

Lee - A fellow that was buying and trading USAF patches from me posted this very patch in the unknown section of usafpatches.com a couple of months ago to help me get an ID on it. I know you're a member there, as I am, but it didn't get any answers or comments. Could have been the asker, for he is aggressive. Do you suggest any sections of that site where I might get a view of something similar in nature? Fighter wings or squadrons? My guess is that with the large number of patches shown on that site, it could take a lifetime or two finding it.

I usually don't put a patch in my trade or sell binder until I get a positive ID on it, so I do thank you guys for commenting on this one and adding the valuable input. It is appreciated!

Gary

[DaveP]

It is German made by the looks of the rear. I have collected USAF patches many years and have not seen this one, although there are many I've not seen. My best guess... it is probably German AF. They used F-4s for many years after we quit.

Dave

[GLM]

It is German made by the looks of the rear. I have collected USAF patches many years and have not seen this one, although there are many I've not seen. My best guess... it is probably German AF. They used F-4s for many years after we quit.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Welcome to the Forum! Thanks for the possible German connection lead on this patch. I saw an American made jet silouette and automatically thought USAF or USN/USMC. Never entered my mind that it might be a patch from one of our Allies. I'll run it by the guys over in the International section and see if maybe one of them knows what it is. Thanks!

Gary

[Gene]

Doesn't look West German to me, it looks more like a factory Mickey D's patch or maybe something for a test unit at Edwards AFB

[GLM]

Doesn't look West German to me, it looks more like a factory Mickey D's patch or maybe something for a test unit at Edwards AFB

Hi Gene,

What is a Mickey D's patch? I'm not familiar with USAF patches and haven't heard that term before.

Gary

[Lee Ragan]

Gary,
I really don't know off hand where you can find illustrations of the various F-4 patches to compare them. Ya mite see if there is an F-4 link on USAF Patches.com & see if that might turn up something. I know I've spent hours looking at the gallery on that website & Polders books on Air Force patches.
Seems like there was a thread on the USAF patches website awhile back that discussed the multiple use of those aircraft type patches. I know some of them were worn my several units @ the same time. This could very vell be one of those. Also could very well be a Brit or German used patch. I don't think I'd put too much stock into the patch reflecting an accurate plan view of the airplane being flown. To most of those people,(who make patches), an F-4 is an F-4.
Sorry I couldn't have been of more help.

[Gene]

Gary,

Mickey D's is what we used to call McDonnell Douglas. They had factory patches for their test pilots that were very similar to this. The only people I knew who were concerned with A flight or B flight were the crew chiefs, not the aircrews. They flew whatever Code 1 aircraft was on the schedule for the next day.

Gene

[GLM]

Gary,
I really don't know off hand where you can find illustrations of the various F-4 patches to compare them. Ya mite see if there is an F-4 link on USAF Patches.com & see if that might turn up something. I know I've spent hours looking at the gallery on that website & Polders books on Air Force patches.
Seems like there was a thread on the USAF patches website awhile back that discussed the multiple use of those aircraft type patches. I know some of them were worn my several units @ the same time. This could very vell be one of those. Also could very well be a Brit or German used patch. I don't think I'd put too much stock into the patch reflecting an accurate plan view of the airplane being flown. To most of those people,(who make patches), an F-4 is an F-4.
Sorry I couldn't have been of more help.

Lee,

Thanks! I've actually looked myself cross-eyed trying to identify different AF patches on the USAF patches website. That site really illustrates and makes one aware of just how big the Air Force is. I'll try and find the thread that discusses these type a/c patches.

Gary

[GLM]

Gary,

Mickey D's is what we used to call McDonnell Douglas. They had factory patches for their test pilots that were very similar to this. The only people I knew who were concerned with A flight or B flight were the crew chiefs, not the aircrews. They flew whatever Code 1 aircraft was on the schedule for the next day.

Gene

Gene,

Thanks! Now I know what a Mickey D's patch is!

Gary