inter-allied victory ribbon question

[Michael Page]

Picked this medal up recently--I've seen this on ribbon bars before although I can't figure out if it was the first style, how rare, etc.

Below is a closeup of ribbon.

[Tim B.]

Mike,

I've never seen this ribbon before and have no idea what it goes to. The tri-colors blue/white/red could signify France or the United States, the green/white/red is probably Italy, but the yellow/black/yellow???? The significance of the red borders???

The only country utilizing these battle clasps was the US and the only ribbon ever authorized for the official US WW1 Victory Medal is below.

With that said, is there a medal (medallion) attached and can we see the whole piece as it may help identify what happened here. My guess is either someone made up this piece not having or knowing what the real ribbon looked like, or somewhere somebody put clasps on--maybe a state issued victory commemorative medal--?? Your guess is as good as mine.
Tim

[Allan H.]

As Mike stated in the header, the ribbon is the Inter-Allied Victory ribbon and the ribbon is commonly seen on uniforms of World War I veterans. In fact, I would say that the Inter-Allied and the VFW ribbon are the two most commonly seen ribbons, even surpassing the World War I Victory medal ribbon on these uniforms. To clarify, I am talking about uniforms coming out of the woodwork and not the ones showing up on eBay, Manions, or at militaria shows.
It looks to me like somebody needed to re-ribbon a WWI Victory medal and they had the Inter-Allied ribbon available. To my knowledge, there is no medal associated with the ribbon.
It looks pretty darned cool though!
Allan

Mike,

I've never seen this ribbon before and have no idea what it goes to. The tri-colors blue/white/red could signify France or the United States, the green/white/red is probably Italy, but the yellow/black/yellow???? The significance of the red borders???

The only country utilizing these battle clasps was the US and the only ribbon ever authorized for the official US WW1 Victory Medal is below.

With that said, is there a medal (medallion) attached and can we see the whole piece as it may help identify what happened here. My guess is either someone made up this piece not having or knowing what the real ribbon looked like, or somewhere somebody put clasps on--maybe a state issued victory commemorative medal--?? Your guess is as good as mine.
Tim

[Tim B.]

Hi Allan,

Well, that's kind of my point. The PIC Mike shown clearly has a medal either attached and not shown, or was made specifically to suspend a medal. If he has a medal attached here, I would like to see what it looks like.

I've personally never seen this ribbon, but then again, I don't follow WW1 stuff that much other than the victory medals. I don't believe this ribbon was ever issued by the US, but maybe something given by another government to US forces for service over there(?). It's not in any of the ribbon or medal charts that I have seen and hard to understand why the US would have two ribbons signifying interallied "victory", unless the ribbon was just signifying interallied service.

The "official" name decided upon for all of the countries that were commisioned to design and award an interallied victory medal of WW1 was simply the "Victory Medal", which I posted a sample of ours, so I'm just not sure what someone has done here in Mike's case, but think it's a homemade version and certainly not something "official".

Tim

[VerKuilen Ager]

The ribbon was sold by Studley and was available in his catalog as late as 1939. He called it the "Allied Service" ribbon and it was probably totally unofficial, appearing as #102 in precedence out of 104 items, following all the state, veteran, and society ribbons, just after a ribbon for the United Daughters of the Confederacy and just before a generic create-your-own-award of red/white/blue for marching bands and color guards.

[kfields]

I have a ribbon bar similar to this and I always had a hunch that maybe this style was arrived at prior to the familiar style found on the WW1 victory ribbons and bars.
If you look close at the colors of this bar, you can see the different allied countries flag colors in consecutive order: U.S. colors first, british,french,italian...Just a thought...Kim

[kfields]

I was putting the previous ribbon away and remembered that I had another group with a similar ribbon. I have a grouping of uniform items that belonged to Cpl Harry M. Moser of the 89th division as well as his photo. In addition to what you see in the photo I've attached, I have in my possession his diary, dogtags and other bits and pieces. Sure wish I had his uniform!
Anyway, here is a photo of his ribbon bars, the bottom one (I think it's the same one) which is worn by him in the photo. Just thought this was interesting. Kim

[Michael Page]

I forgot to post this one. Anyway it's the standard pendant.

If you look at the stitching job that goes along the bottom of the brooch area, notice the stitching isn't anchored at each border of the ribbon as in Tim's. On the viewer's right it is, but not the left which maybe points to a private alteration(?)


This is a wrap brooch by the way.

Hi Allan,

Well, that's kind of my point. The PIC Mike shown clearly has a medal either attached and not shown, or was made specifically to suspend a medal. If he has a medal attached here, I would like to see what it looks like.

I've personally never seen this ribbon, but then again, I don't follow WW1 stuff that much other than the victory medals. I don't believe this ribbon was ever issued by the US, but maybe something given by another government to US forces for service over there(?). It's not in any of the ribbon or medal charts that I have seen and hard to understand why the US would have two ribbons signifying interallied "victory", unless the ribbon was just signifying interallied service.

The "official" name decided upon for all of the countries that were commisioned to design and award an interallied victory medal of WW1 was simply the "Victory Medal", which I posted a sample of ours, so I'm just not sure what someone has done here in Mike's case, but think it's a homemade version and certainly not something "official".

Tim

[Tim B.]

VerKuilen Ager,

Interesting information; so the award was totally unofficial then? Did this award actually have a medallion or just a ribbon?

Kim,

Thanks for the PICS, interesting as I have never seen this particular ribbon before. I am now wondering if what I thought were the colors yellow/black/yellow in Mike's piece are not in fact red/yellow/black representing Belgium.

Mike,

I honestly have to say that I think the piece is made up and not originally issued that way. Chances are that someone took the suspension ring and opened it, removed the original medallion, slipped the clasps over the ribbon from the bottom and then put on an original US victory medal.

Check to see if there is a gap or telltale sign of the ring being bent open and shut. This is the most common way people are adding clasps to ordinary victory medals to add rarity and value. You really have to watch out for these.
Tim

[DMD]

Interesting discussion. Could somebody explain exactly what and where the Defensive Sector was?

Dennis

[MH184]

In ref. to pic # 6

I think the tri-colours go from left to right being - USA, Belg, GB (Red, white & blue), Italy, then I'm not to sure on this mix of colours just yet. And the last stripes, blue, white & red is France I would have thought.


Just a thought.

Kr

Marcus

[MH184]

Unless red white and blue is Holland (Netherlands {Luxemberg to I think but has a lighter blue} or what ever is correct in this day) the broad red strip Japan perhaps ??? And the blue white thin red, white then red is the UK (see pic below as in possible connection in a portion of flag ??)


Wild guessing there, if that wasn't obvious

[kfields]

DMD, Defensive Sector represents the soldier was stationed at the front (could have been anywhere from the north to the south), part of the overall force maintaining the line in strength. Dangerous work with death and injury occuring daily but not partaking in a major offensive operation (going over the top in strength) such as St Mihiel, Meuse-Argonne or other operation. Kim

[brad k]

I saw a medal in a shop once that I am pretty sure was this same ribbon or very similar,and I believe the medal part was for members of the odd fellows who served in ww1(no campaign bars) I probably should have bought it because I am familiar with the ribbon and have several uniforms with it on them,I suppose it was a variation like some of the city medals that used the victory ribbon. weren't these ribbons available before the victory medals?

[leigh kitchen]

I reckon the colours represent:

America, Belgium, Serbia, Russia, (Luxemburg ?) Italy, Japan, UK & France, not necessarily in that order(because I always get the colour order for Serbia & Russia mixed up), with some sets of national colours being comprised of "overlaps" with bands of colour from the set of colours next to them.

I agree that the UK is represented by the red, white & blue bands of different widths, but Holland won't feature as it was a neutral.