Research Assistance re: U.S. Army Soldier (ETO) - War Trophy German MP44 Machine Gun?

[Alan Smith]

I have recently completed a deal to acquire a WWII German MP44 machine gun from the estate of the WWII U.S. vet (Edward Randolph White, Jr.) who brought it back to the US as a war trophy in 1946. The family has no documents about the soldier (all items being lost to a house fire decades ago); most people who were in close relationship with the soldier are now deceased; and all the surviving family can remember is that he was "in the engineers and helped build bridges" in the ETO.

Attached is a copy of the original registration document whereby this war trophy machine gun was lawfully imported into the US and registered with the federal government pursuant to the National Firearms Act of 1934. Also attached is a copy of the soldier's Death Certificate from when he passed away in 1975.

The federal registration papers reflect Mr. White as living in Opelika, Alabama c. 1946 when he came home from WWII (and his heirs have confirmed that this was his hometown where he grew up). Some family members think that he may (??) have been an officer . . . which would perhaps make sense as he was (per the Death Certificate) born in 1912, so he would have been in his early 30's during his time in the ETO. Also, bringing home a machine gun as a war trophy seems to have been (in my experience collecting such items) more common among officers than enlisted men . . . again suggesting that, perhaps, he held officer rank.

Is there any chance that some of the Forum's resident experts at US military records might be able to locate materials regarding Mr. White? I would very much like to be able to track down some details of his service time (especially the identification of the unit(s) he served with in the ETO).

Any help would be much appreciated!

[Alan Smith]

Let me try again with the paperwork . . . this time using .jpg versions of the documents rather than .pdf

[Alan Smith]

BTW: If anyone knows how to eliminate the infamous "Apple Flip" that seems to happen with i-phone photos that I post to this forum, I would be grateful for an education on the subject. The document photos posted are in correct orientation in my source files . . . in fact, they came in correctly oriented when e-mailed from my i-phone to my computer where I stored the photos. For reasons unknown to me, the photos "flipped" when uploaded to WA forum.

[509thPIB]

..

[509thPIB]

....

[whatthecrunchyo]

Wow lucky you! Congrats on your new toy!

Jordan

[tmca05]

FYI, you can not take this weapon into your possession until it it legally transferred into your name via the BATF. Right now, transfers are taking up to 1 year.
The fact that he died in 1975 is going to make things trickier.
You will need to get the executor of his estate or his heir to do it, and they need to prove that they have the legal right to his property.
Not impossible, but it will require some work.
Find his will, find the heir or executor to his estate, and the paperwork to back it all up.
I knew of an MP-40 in the same situation and the paper trail could not be proven to the current legal owner. BATF would not approve a transfer and the weapon had to be turned in.
What ever you do, to not take possession of the weapon until the BATF sends you paperwork in your name. The weapon appears to be legally registered right now, but not to you.
Side note: because the import documents are dated 1946, the BATF may not even have this in their own data base and they will add extra caution to the transfer. They may demand to see the original paperwork from 1946, not just copies.

[tmca05]

Going through the hassle of getting this weapon transferred is worth it.
Number 1, you are saving a rare piece of history.
Number 2, once you get it into your name, you may be able to legally make it fire again, so that it’s not just a dewat for display. In firing condition, you are looking at a $20-30,000 weapon, if not more.

[johan willaert]

Nice MP!

To find out more about the veteran's service you might want to contact Geoff at Golden Arrow research for more info...

https://www.goldenarrowresearch.com/

[Alan Smith]

Thanks, guys - the feedback is appreciated. Also, thank you very much for correcting the orientation of the documents!

On the NFA and estate transfer issue, my "day job" is as an attorney handling commercial loan enforcement and related creditors' rights work, which includes bankruptcy, real property, estate probate, etc. As a hobby, I collect vintage machine guns. Thus far, about 8 - 10 of the C&R machine guns in my collection are guns like this MP44 that I have extracted directly out of old estates where I had to address testate and/or intestate succession issues for one or more (sometimes up to 3) generations of heirs in order to effect the transfer. With these old estates, my current "record" is the successful transfer of a WWII Italian FNAB 43 submachine gun from an estate where the Registrant had passed away about 32 years earlier. Some of these adventures are detailed in my posts under the Firearms sub-form . . . . so feel free to drop in and take a look.

As to possession of this particular gun, it remains with the Registrant's heirs. I submitted the transfer packet in October, 2019, so more than likely I have quite a while to go before I can take possession. The copy of the registration document that you see was provided to the heirs by a local BATFE field agent who has been involved in the matter, with the family then disclosing it to me as part of our transaction.

A big part of the draw to this particular MP44 was the direct vet bring-back provenance, so I very much hope that some details of this soldier's WWII service can be developed. Several of you on this sub-forum have helped me research U.S. service members' names, records, etc. on prior matters, so I am hoping that some of you "History Nut" type guys may be able to assist.

[RobertE]

Alan, what a fantastic bit of luck on the MP44, and congratulations. For those following such things, Alan was instrumental in helping me through a similarly convoluted process in 2014 that resulted in me becoming the proud owner of a legal MP43. He is a foremost expert on the legal and procedural way to get such weapons through the process - I'm really happy to see this paid off in this case.

s/f Robert

[TWS]

Wow. Lovely MP-44/ Sturmgewehr 44. Would love to own one someday myself.

[Michael Kuligowski]

hi !!

did some research and found his census from 1930:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3KQT-FW2

and birth:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4VVG-DFPZ

according to the first one he was born 25th dec 1912 but according to census he was considered born in 1913

now there is only one guy matching this in my database:

https://wwii-enlistment.com/record/16062859/

now this says he enlisted in Michigan - could it be he was there in college ?

here is his grave:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...randolph-white

[tmca05]

Allen, I am glad to hear that you know what you have a what you are doing.
That is an awesome weapon. I would love to get a '44 with direct provenance.
I have seen several collectors buy items like this from estates, with old paperwork. They think Its ok to take possession at the moment of sale.
I knew of one guy who bought an MG-42 and an MP-40 via a picker friend. He had the 1946 paperwork just like you have, however, he did not know the family were the weapons originally came from. The name was to generic to research at the time. He contacted the BATF and showed them what he had and asked how to transfer them. Both weapons were obviously confiscated. He thought that because they had papers, it was all OK.
He learned the hard way and never got them back. He still had the 1946 paperwork when he later passed away. The original papers were tucked into a book and accidentally sold to an unknown at his estate sale.

Side tip: When I have purchased Class III's direct from a known veteran, I had his info added in the "other Remarks" section of the Form 4. The ATF has never rejected a transfer for doing that. In doing so, it keeps the history of the weapon documented for future generations.
sample: This weapon was captured by Sgt xxxx, SN#123xxx, 82nd AB, 505th PIR, May 1945.

[Alan Smith]

Robert: Thanks for the kind words and I'm happy to hear that you are still enjoying your "Out of the Woodwork" MP43.

Michael: Thanks for the research . . . . it looks like you have found the soldier in question, as the 12/25/12 DOB matches the Death Certificate and the grave marker/burial site is correct (per what the family has told me).

Any further information we can dig up on this guy's wartime service would be most appreciated! Again, my ultimate goal is to identify his WWII ETO unit and then begin to gather information about that unit.