Need some help with Korean War vet bring back belt buckle..

[Dave D]

My Dad was in the 1st Provisional Marine Brigade Reinforced during the Korean War. This is a belt buckle he brought home. He took it off of Chinese Lieutenant, as in my Dads' words, no longer needed it. The buckle is brass, 1 1/2 inches by 2 1/2 inches. I believe it is a Cavalry belt buckle by the crossed saber and musket. Has Korean on the front ; Korean and Chinese on characters stamped on the back. I've been able to get the Korean translated, but it doesn't help in identifying the buckle itself.
I don't know if it's ROK, North Korean, Chinese, or Russian. The crown with the cross blows all my theories. Maybe Imperial Russia, they would have the crown with a cross, but why would it have Korean on the front? The Korean on the front commemorates the battle triumph. The Korean on the back says it's a victory commemoration of the Goryo Company in the Andong Battle Region March 31, 1950. The date March has to be a typo as the North Koreans didn't invade the south until June 25. 1950. The Andong battle would have been over July 31, 1950.
I have found different results as to who won the battle. Some say North Korea 12th division and others say the ROK 8th division won the battle. So I don't know if this could be a North or South Korean belt buckle.
I'm totally puzzled about this buckle. My dad died back in 2008 so it's too late to ask him.
Any insight or other translations would be greatly appreciated.
Dave
Here is the front.

[Dave D]

And here is the back of the buckle.
Oh, and by the way I'm glad I found this forum. Looks like a great bunch of guys.
Dave

[MattS]

I can't help with much, but I will say that is a really unique buckle! If it was ROK, it probably wouldn't have Chinese writing on the rear. It wouldn't be Imperial Russian as they dissolved back in 1917 and everything by the 1950s would be Soviet. If it is North Korean or Chinese, why the crown on the front? That's a head scratcher alright.

[Dave D]

I've received another opinion on the buckle Matt, that it might be from the Russo-Japanese War. I checked out some Imperial Russian Belt buckles, all have the double headed eagle on the. But the interesting thing is that on top of the eagles is a crown that looks identical to the one the belt. From what I'm told the Chinese where allowed to wear their fathers medals on their uniforms along with their own for tradition. So maybe that Chinese Lieutenants' Father received that buckle back in the Russo-Japanese war.
Just one more thing for me to digest.

[Michael Page]

That's a real head-scratcher. First of all, are you certain that the guy was from the Chinese army and not the North Korean army?

Some observations:

If the date is correct, then it's commemorating one of the many fights that took place just prior to the opening of the war, from January to May 1950; there were 18 incidents that took place in the first half of March, 1950, for example. And Andong is near the 38th parallel.

There also used to be an Andong city and province near the Yalu, and apparently that area was the scene of fighting in the Russo-Japanese war (as part of Manchukuo). But that wouldn't jibe with the 1950 date.

As to the lettering, I wonder if it could be Japanese, as they and the Chinese often use the same characters, if I'm not mistaken.

[Dave D]

Yes, I would say he was Chinese. Among my father stuff is a Far East Command handbook for " North Korean Army " dated August 1950. The handbook shows both North and South Korean insignias. So I'm pretty sure my Dad knew. I have no idea if the guy was wearing it or had it among had possessions. My Dad said he took his burpgun, tt-30 pistol, belt buckle and his pipe. All was stuffed into his sea bag until they came over the loudspeaker on his ship back home and said all weapons had to be turn in and anyone caught with weapons would be looking at a court-martial. So like everyone else aboard, he threw his PPSH-41 and the handgun out of a hatch into the sea. He said @#^* ! them. We're the ones who earned them, I,m not turning them in so some stinking officer can take them and claim them.
I've also learned the characters are korean and that the year numbering system (4283) was used officially by South Korea from 1945 to 1961. It starts the year count with the traditional founding of Korea in 2333 BC.
But that crown is still blowing everything out of the water.

[STEBALIN]

No way it´s Chinese or NK. If it was, definitely would not have a crown. By that time the Chinese PLA symbol was a star with the chinese characters "8" and "1".

The alphabet in the obverse doesn´t look like Korean, nor Chinese, nor Russian. And definitely it´s not Japanese.

The script looks a lot like Ahmaric, so I´d lean towards Ethiopian maybe? BTW the Crown/star and arms combo would make much more sense. The hangul inscription in the reverse must have been added later. I´m not sure if the Ethiopian Empire sent troops to Korea though.

[hc8mm]

I agree that the obverse is not of any known East Asian language. How you got Korean out of that is interesting.

I believe there maybe a chance that the soldier that your dad got this from maybe Korean?

I just looked up Korean numbers and the numbers that are similar to Chinese is actually called Hanja.

From what I'm told the Chinese where allowed to wear their fathers medals on their uniforms along with their own for tradition.

I doubt any Communist soldiers would be wearing any Nationalist or Qing dynasty medals... probably get shot in the head if they did.

As to the lettering, I wonder if it could be Japanese, as they and the Chinese often use the same characters, if I'm not mistaken.

Japanese uses characters from Chinese.

[Dave D]

I agree that the obverse is not of any known East Asian language. How you got Korean out of that is interesting.

I believe there maybe a chance that the soldier that your dad got this from maybe Korean?

I just looked up Korean numbers and the numbers that are similar to Chinese is actually called Hanja.


I doubt any Communist soldiers would be wearing any Nationalist or Qing dynasty medals... probably get shot in the head if they did.


Japanese uses characters from Chinese.

Hello hc8mm, thank you for your reply.
The person who done the translation is Korean. She was twelve years old when the North Koreans attacked the South. I've had another Korean check it out and he said it is Korean front and back. But that it is very unusual to see Korean characters written horizontal.
And since they are both Korean I trust them that what is on the front and back of the buckle is Korean
Hopefully this will clarify things. The font is a little different ,but you can see it is Korean.
Dave

[AMAC50]

Ethiopia sent troops to Korea starting in 1951, the first battalion was called the "Kagnew Battalion" numbering 1200 men. After a year they were replaced by another 1200 who also served one and followed by another for a 3600 or so total serving during the war.

The Ethiopians were assigned the the 7th Infantry Division, I believe it was assigned to the 32nd Infantry regt., and fought at "Porkchop Hill", Triangle Hill and others. BUT Ethiopean troops didn't arrive in Korea until June 1951.

Both the imperial crown and five point star are used in various Ethiopean medals and imperial badges and such. The script on the front of the buckle does look Ahmaric, and 7 of the 10 charactors are very similar to the Ethiopian versions, goggled it and compared I'm no expert lol. Give it a try, it'll drive you crazy or to drink, maybe both. Seems there are MANY different variations of it.

The reverse also contains similar charactors.

I agree that he most likely captured it from a KPA officer, due to the 1st Prov. Marine Brigade being released from control of the Army 2 Division on the Pusan Perimeter and sent to Pusan on 6 Sept 1950 . There deactivated with the Marines being reassigned to the 1st and 7th Marine Regiments. This was prior to the Chinese intervention.

Keep us posted, it's a very interesting buckle and background!

Jim

[Dave D]

Thanks for your imput Jim.
I am keeping an open mind on this buckle. Anything is possible.
I'm trying to find, with no luck so far, any type of Korean military website or forum with an english page to post this.