I bought this last night, hope I did ok? Can anyone translate this for me? I have tried but to no avail, blade measures 34 5/8" long, thanks for the help, I do appreciate it!
Brad
Brad
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I cannot opine on the quality of the sword (will leave that to the experts!), but can translate the writing:
[南] 満鐵鍛造之
[Minami/Nan- stamp] Mantetsu tanzō kore
[South] This was made with Manchurian steel
昭和癸未春
Showa Mizunoto-Hitsuji, Haru
Spring, 1943
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Sword
Guy, thank you very much, yea I don't think it is a super high quality sword, thanks for your help
BradComment
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Brad,Originally posted by Blitz676 View Post
On the contrary my good buddy! You've got a high quality fighting weapon there! I'ts in the last 2 years of full production (they made some in '45) of the South Manchurain Railway (SMR) Mantetsu blade. No, it's not a gendaito, traditionally made blade, but there was a waiting list of officers that wanted them!
Please, could you give me a picture of the full serial number on the back edge of the nakago (tang), with the habaki (brass collar) off? I've been studying the Mantetsu blade for a while and collect the mei, date, and serial numbers.
Here's some good reading on them:
http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic...ners-a-survey/
and
http://ohmura-study.net/998.htmlComment
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Ah! that's good to hear, I'll get you that picture shortly thanks you!
Originally posted by BruceP View PostComment
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Sword
Here is a picture of the markings on the back of the bladeComment
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sword
Ant trick to getting the collar off?Comment
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Hey, no worries! Yours is showing the full serial number without taking it off.
Yours is "Te" 599, which puts it in the middle of the 1943 production line. I THINK their year was counted on Fiscal Year which started in April, so that would put your sword around October'ish of '43.
The blades with the non-Koa Isshin mei, like yours, are still a bit of a mystery. The small stamp is a "Nan" representing the Nanban Army Arsenal, who took on the responsibility of inspecting the SMR factory operation around 1942. It is still not fully know whether these blades were made by SMR Dalian factory, or made un-finished and sent to the Nanman Arseanl for "finishing"; or were fully made at the Nanman Arsenal. So far, there have been no official records which can say one way or the other. But the blades were made the Mantetsu way, with Mantetsu steel, so just as potent a weapon, regardless of their origin.
Confusing the issue is that there were Koa Isshin mei blades made seemingly intermingled with the non-Koa's. Your number is just 4 blades away from a Te 595 Koa Isshin, and so far, the latest non-Koa blade in the Te serial line, in my meager collection of numbers.
Much still to be learned about these magnificent blades.
I'll post a couple of pics of my Dad's Mantetsu with before and after shots (I had it polished).Comment
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I have a Mantetsu from 1937, made in Manchukuo and quite likely some of these blades were made from American steel.
South Manchuria Railway
"The railway used a significant amount of U.S.-made rails and signaling equipment, as well as some steam locomotives built by the American Locomotive Company at Dunkirk, NY. A visiting executive from the Erie Railroad was quite impressed with the arrangement, and described South Manchurian Railway ca. 1913 as "the only railroad in the whole world that is like our American railroads (and they are, fairly speaking, the best)"".
As the rails were regauged several times during the invasion and occupation by the Japanese forces, quite likley the american rails just didn't fit any more.
"One of the first tasks of the new company was to change the railway gauge. The rail line was originally built according to the gauge of 5 ft (1,524 mm), during the war it had been converted by the advancing Japanese troops to the Japanese 3 ft 6 in (1,067 mm) gauge, in order to facilitate the use of rolling stock brought from Japan. But once the new Japanese South Manchuria Railway Company took possession of the line, it had the tracks re-gauged again, now to the gauge of 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in (1,435 mm) standard gauge, presumably with an eye to connecting the system to other railways of China."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_...omonhan_pp.6-5
I was told that there were a lot of disused american rails lying about in the yards and that the Japanese smiths stationed in Manchukuo wanted to experiment with the steel as it was known to be better than what was to be found locally.
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Now Larry ..... you KNOW I REALLY NEED to see pics of that '37 Mantetsu, with serial number!!!Originally posted by Larry Davis View Post
And your idea is an interesting one. Rail steel was known to be good stuff. From the description of the invention of the Mantetsu manufacturing method, though, the steel would simply have to have been shaped into a tube. I don't know the mechanics of that, but I would think it possible.Comment
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Bruce, these videos will give you idea of how tubes are made.
Molten iron is formed into billets, then rolled into bars and then a piercing mill forms the hole through the centre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhc_Kkc-vMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5x6xfYWrlU
Whether or not Mantetsu recycled old railway tracks to forge into billets, I don't know for sure but I highly doubt it. The heads of tracks are tempered/hardened so I'd imagine you'd have to cut those off and discard them before using that steel again for swords.Comment
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Will, thanks for pointing that out! I have always had an issue with mixing the 5 and 6. When I see the kanji for 6, my mind sees a 5-pointed star - so it's 5 in my head!.Originally posted by Will G. View PostComment
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I was not aware that there was an interest in Mantetsu blades, but I can recall the derision from the other collectors when I purchased this blade. They also laughed when I showed them one of my Japanese war time manufactured stainless steel marine katanas, no such a thing they shouted, a myth they contemptuously sneered! Now they deny ever having said that they don’t exist. Such is the nature of the average Japanese sword ‘expert’. But I digress.
“Now Larry ..... you KNOW I REALLY NEED to see pics of that '37 Mantetsu, with serial number!!!”
Bruce,
I didn't but since you ask I will dig out the blade and photograph the pertinent parts for you, it will take some days, I’ve not seen it for thirty odd years but it is lurking about…
I will be in touch via PM.
“Whether or not Mantetsu recycled old railway tracks to forge into billets, I don't know for sure but I highly doubt it. The heads of tracks are tempered/hardened so I'd imagine you'd have to cut those off and discard them before using that steel again for swords.”
Ben,
No, all metal be it steel tempered or otherwise can be re-smelted and repurposed. Just because one part of a piece of tool steel has been heat treated does not mean that one has to remove that bit before one can repurpose it. If you reheat the whole back to temperature and then slowly cool it you bring the entire piece back to a malleable state, the internal crystals loosen and relax, at which point it can be reshaped, worked what have you and then you can add more carbon if you wish in the reheating process to make it harder, then heat treat the item, soak it at temperature to create whatever size internal crystals the application demands then cool and reheat to whatever hardness-temper you desire.
https://youtu.be/6jQ4y0LK1kY
Take the Japanese sword; the whole blade body is in a roughly mild form, the blade is then coated in varying layers of refractory slurry, the leading cutting edge being the thinnest; and this is where the temper line pattern (hamon) is created. When the blade is heated to colour and quenched the leading edge cools more quickly than the areas that were thickly coated with the slurry. And what gives the hamon it’s distinctive ‘line’ is the fine haze of martensite crystals that form between the hard cutting edge and the softer spine of the blade.
http://www.threeplanes.net/martensite.html
Jaki-ire, hardening of the Japanese swords blades
https://youtu.be/BLXLTyn55nM
So did they reuse the American tracks? I don’t know for certain, a Japanese swordsmith from the time who worked in Korea in the thirties told me that he and some of his crew had messed about with the American steel and made some blades. I don’t know, and I wasn’t about to call him out on it. I just assumed.
And from what I have just read about over the last few days concerning the manufacture of the Kōa-Issin sword and Mantetsu made in the Dalian Railway Factory and others steel works in Manchukuo have altered my opinion to a great degree. These publications were not available to me forty plus years ago so I just used what I knew and what was told to me by reputable sources.
As for the American rails, it was war time and good quality materials were hard to source so why not reuse the steel?
And in closing from the web page;
http://ohmura-study.net/205.html
“In the following 13 years, he established the Sword Factory, and began mass-producing "Mitsutetsu swords" that were standardized in consideration of cold-resistance and the skills of the swordsmith, and were mass-produced.
After the start of mass production in March 1942, it was named "Koa Isshin" * 1 by Governor Matsuoka .
The initial name was "Mantetsu Katana", which became a popular name.
There are various inscriptions on the stem, such as “Koa Isshin Mansetsu Kinko”, “Koa Isshin Mansetsu Sakuyuki”, “Koa Isshin Mansetsu”, and “Mitsugetsu Forging”
2 .
The initial sword of the name of the name is only engraved on the stem with a trademark of Manchuria. It was a very good military sword with cold resistance.
The sword material is "Kusuka Juntetsu", which is a refined steel produced in Manchuria, and the myth that it was made of rail steel is completely wrong.”
So there it is, I was mistaken in my assumption that the Mantetsu Katana was made from repurposed American rail steel!
Well, I have just learned something today, my week has not been a loss after all!
Links to articles;
The whole aspect of the Kōa-Issin sword
http://ohmura-study.net/998.html
KOA ISSHIN MANTETSU
http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/koa.htm
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