Help with my new Japanese helmet purchase

[Leo2018]

Hi
This is one of my first posts here , so firstly hello.

I have recently got into Japanese items after being heavily involved with collecting USMC over the past 15 plus years.
It was the natural progression for me to start to look at there enemy, now I’m hooked and really enjoying it.

I won this fabulous set from an auction, it’s got all the bells and whistles of a battle field pick up including the vets info.

My question is, how rare are these covers. Are they an early Manchurian made cover , and does anyone have any more info in these or an opinion on mine.

Thanks in advance

- Dean & Leo

[Leo2018]

Inside this has been carved in with a knife, I’ve had it partially translated

I identify the following characters.
百五▢ – 105 + some symbol?
三宮隊 – Sannomiya/Sanguu party
岡▢上ト兵 -maybe→ 岡崎上等兵 – Okazaki, private first class

I think that the inscription expresses the belonging and the name of a soldier.
And an image of a military bugle.

[Leo2018]

More of the grouping, with the letter from the family

[GHP]

I think your understanding of the kanji are correct. A member of the Sannomiya Battalion.

Most likely 岡崎 Okazaki as I can see the 山 radical of what is apparently 崎.
The owner might have been the unit bugler.

Other thoughts?


— Guy

[Leo2018]

I think your understanding of the kanji are correct. A member of the Sannomiya Battalion.

Most likely 岡崎 Okazaki as I can see the 山 radical of what is apparently 崎.
The owner might have been the unit bugler.

Other thoughts?


— Guy

Thanks Guy for the input , sounds plausible with the etching. He would have been on the battle field giving the signal for the charge.

Any thoughts on the cover , also any info on the sannomiya battalion, I’m thinking this was taken from a Japanese soldier after his death. That’s how the Seabee acquired it. Would be interesting to find out where they fought

[beretta1934]

Thanks Guy for the input , sounds plausible with the etching. He would have been on the battle field giving the signal for the charge.

Any thoughts on the cover , also any info on the sannomiya battalion, I’m thinking this was taken from a Japanese soldier after his death. That’s how the Seabee acquired it. Would be interesting to find out where they fought

First things first, i assume you want the truth about this item or you would not have posted it. If you are in possession of the items yet - Can you lift up the front pad liner and photograph or describe hat is ink printed there?
It might be blank (i.e.. Nothing at all there)

Send, right underneath where the front pad lies inside the shell is a slit which a front emblem went thru. It might already be pictured in the second photo. If the auction photo is not of that location please take one. Then - and this is the real point of location the front slit - take a photo of where the cover goes over this slit (from the outside). This is where the front emblem should/was attached to the helmet cover. If a sewn on front emblem is no longer on the cover there WILL always be the sewing holes outline and or fading from what was previously there. If they sewn on emblem is gone but there is one underneath the cover you should be able to feel its presence and outline shape.

Lastly, can you take a well lit photo of the inside of the helmet crown - looking for any white/ivory has any painted characters or numbers.

[Leo2018]

First things first, i assume you want the truth about this item or you would not have posted it. If you are in possession of the items yet - Can you lift up the front pad liner and photograph or describe hat is ink printed there?
It might be blank (i.e.. Nothing at all there)

Send, right underneath where the front pad lies inside the shell is a slit which a front emblem went thru. It might already be pictured in the second photo. If the auction photo is not of that location please take one. Then - and this is the real point of location the front slit - take a photo of where the cover goes over this slit (from the outside). This is where the front emblem should/was attached to the helmet cover. If a sewn on front emblem is no longer on the cover there WILL always be the sewing holes outline and or fading from what was previously there. If they sewn on emblem is gone but there is one underneath the cover you should be able to feel its presence and outline shape.

Lastly, can you take a well lit photo of the inside of the helmet crown - looking for any white/ivory has any painted characters or numbers.

Hi

Thanks for asking what you would like to see, as the items are in transit I can only tell you what I know.

Attached is the photo of the helmets star that can clearly be seen under the camouflage cover. It has created a shadow where the dirt from the cover and the wear has created a kind of etching as the star is underneath.

I’m told These early Manchuria covers featured with no emblem and then with a sewn on emblem.

I can post you full pics of the helmet when it arrives.

Have you any knowledge of these helmet covers ?

Yours
Dean

[Jareth]

it's an early first pattern cover. Note the sewn vent holes on cover that were intended to line up with helmet vent holes. This pattern was discontinued early on & next pattern eliminated vent holes on cover. In my opinion cover has had field repairs. I see a replaced "patch" panel on side near top & I believe rim reinforcement was also a field repair

[Leo2018]

it's an early first pattern cover. Note the sewn vent holes on cover that were intended to line up with helmet vent holes. This pattern was discontinued early on & next pattern eliminated vent holes on cover. In my opinion cover has had field repairs. I see a replaced "patch" panel on side near top & I believe rim reinforcement was also a field repair

Thanks for the confirmation, I’ve not seen another so would you say they where and are quite a rarity ?
I like the fact of the field repair , shows that this unit was in fact used then cared for in the field.

Do you have photos of another

Thanks for the input

Yours
Dean

[beretta1934]

it's an early first pattern cover. Note the sewn vent holes on cover that were intended to line up with helmet vent holes. This pattern was discontinued early on & next pattern eliminated vent holes on cover. In my opinion cover has had field repairs. I see a replaced "patch" panel on side near top & I believe rim reinforcement was also a field repair

Agreed. The term "Manchurian cover" is not one I've ever heard - "First pattern" is the only term I would use to describe it. But I 've never seen one that did not have a star attached during its original making (except late war NOS/incompleted ones) - star removed or damaged, etc - yes. Will be interesting to see what things can be observed once you have it in hand.

[Leo2018]

Agreed. The term "Manchurian cover" is not one I've ever heard - "First pattern" is the only term I would use to describe it. But I 've never seen one that did not have a star attached during its original making (except late war NOS/incompleted ones) - star removed or damaged, etc - yes. Will be interesting to see what things can be observed once you have it in hand.

Thanks Beretta

I’ve heard first pattern and Manchuria cover coined on it,

I’ve also been told the first patterns where in fact without stars attached, I’ve contacted the seller and it should be with me in a few days so will post new in details photos on its arrival.
I think it could hold some good information as I’m yet to see another online, I’ve also requested information from the seller regarding where it was found by the Seabee.

We have the soldiers name and where he was from as it’s carved into the interior. More secrets and Info I’m sure will become available on its arrival

Yours
Dean

[Jareth]

Don't get caught up on stories. It's A first pattern NOT Manchurian. Here's my old one https://www.germanmilitaria.com/Japa...s/J001281.html bear in mind this site is top dollar & my old one had rare cloth liner as well as insignia which yours is missing

[Leo2018]

Don't get caught up on stories. It's A first pattern NOT Manchurian. Here's my old one https://www.germanmilitaria.com/Japa...s/J001281.html bear in mind this site is top dollar & my old one had rare cloth liner as well as insignia which yours is missing

I don’t think the insignia actually is “missing” I don’t think it was ever there or meant to be there on this cover.

2 Japanese collectors confirmed they have NOS ones in there collection and also another pictured in a period photo that “does not” have the insignia so guessing it happened.
With regards to Manchuria cover apparently these where made there. Once again going off of 2 other collectors input.

As mine is named and hand inscribed by the soldier and seen combat use I wouldn’t think 2-3k on a named 1st cover helmet with net and provenance from the Us vet who bought it back was not expensive imho.

Yours was a lovely helmet and cheap at that price in my opinion. What a corker !


- Dean

[Jareth]

It's great to see such enthusiasm especially in a new collector. Without having cover in hand we can only assume there never was a cover insignia. Perhaps there's evidence of one to be found. Regarding other collectors, I guess that would depend on who they are, how long they've been collecting etc. Manchurian designation in my opinion is a misnomer, collector term. Additionally I believe the selling price , if not negotiated down, was absolute top dollar especially in this soft collecting economy

[Leo2018]

It's great to see such enthusiasm especially in a new collector. Without having cover in hand we can only assume there never was a cover insignia. Perhaps there's evidence of one to be found. Regarding other collectors, I guess that would depend on who they are, how long they've been collecting etc. Manchurian designation in my opinion is a misnomer, collector term. Additionally I believe the selling price , if not negotiated down, was absolute top dollar especially in this soft collecting economy

Thanks Jareth for all the input,
As we all know new research is coming up daily on every aspect of our hobby. Things that “never happened” in fact did and clothing or field gear that wasn’t made like that sometimes was.

I’ll get you better pics on arrival -

Thanks for taking the time to look it over so far and I look forward to your input when it arrives.

Yours

Dean & Leo