NLF Gunto Discussion

[Beater]

The blade is war time and not old. Only the tsuba is old. I like the color and form of the tsuba. The two holes in the guard are for a rope to go over the wrist. It is meant to be a true tsuba and not a decorative form that would not hold up in combat.

Bob,

I thought, like you, the holes were udenuki-ana but aren't they usually close together and one usually significantly larger than the other? I'm sure these are intended to represent that functional feature but it seems they are a loose interpretation.

Kind regards,

Kevin

[Sengoku]

You find lot of Gunto with old iron/steel tsuba. Party a bit of personalisation and partly practical. Brass can be cut through in serious combat.

[Beater]

You find lot of Gunto with old iron/steel tsuba. Party a bit of personalisation and partly practical. Brass can be cut through in serious combat.

In respect of iron as a practical material of choice; understandable in the samurai era, where your opponent would most likely be wielding a sword too, but in WW2? Practicality in choice of hand guard material was surely not a serious consideration in the 1940's? Nostalgia, availability or just personal choice perhaps.

Of course the practical nature of udenuki-ana, which we noted this one appears to have, is more time-less. Whether you are deflecting sword blows or dodging machinegun bullets, it is always likely you will drop your sword in the heat of battle (and which of course, was another purpose the rank tassel fulfilled.)

[BruceP]

Well, a dissapointing turn in the NLF - Japanese Sword Co. investigation. I just got word back from them in answer to clarifying questions, and they deny neither finding already assembled gunto in this style nor assembling surplus parts to make them. Yet, we have fairly good evidence from Bob Coleman that US G.I.s did buy this style gunto from them after the war.

This COULD mean I missed a third question - Did you manufacture, or contract out for manufacture, new, this style gunto. Or it could mean someone simply brought a few of these in to sell, and the JSC bought and resold them. Or, and I would hate to think this of them, they are simply lying about it for their own reasons.

[BruceP]

Interesting find: Someone on this forum just posted one of these up for sale and it comes with it's bring-back certificate. It's dated 1950 and signed by the 8th Army Exchange! It declares the item a souvenir and not a war weapon.

This would point to the possibility that the PX was selling these, and backs up the theory that they were being made post war.

Not 100% proof, but another piece of evidence.

The gunto is disussed here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=984036

[GHP]

...
This would point to the possibility that the PX was selling these, and backs up the theory that they were being made post war....

Bruce,
The cert clearly states it was sold by the Exchange; fact, not possibility. My guess is that the Japan Sword Company had a contract with the Exchange.

—Guy

[BruceP]

Bruce,
The cert clearly states it was sold by the Exchange; fact, not possibility. My guess is that the Japan Sword Company had a contract with the Exchange.

—Guy

Good point guy! That’s what I get for not reading the fine print!

[BruceP]

An update from an NMB post backing our theory of post-war production workin with the PX:

Ian B3HR2UH
Jo Saku


Members
120 posts
Locationdrouin australia
Posted Yesterday, 11:26 PM

There are a few documents around that I think explain what these swords are

Among the fantastic documents that Stephen Thorpe kindly posted in the articles section is the report of a conference held at the Tenshozan Works Kamakura on the 9th of September 1946. Those present included the manager Shintaro Yao who said that he had a contract with the 8th Army PX to deliver for sale by them 8000 swords . He was worried because the PX had cancelled the contract.



Among the downloadable documents in the National Diet library website is a letter from Capt Wall dated 22 July 1949 where he seeks permission to take home one Naval type Japanese sword presented to him by Mr Yao supervisor of the Japanese Naval sword Manufacturing Co Kamakura .



There is a further letter dated 4 March 1950 requesting authorization to procure authentic samurai swords and hari kari knives for resale to the Exchange . I am not sure what the exchange is but the letter goes on to approve the recommendation that CPO be allowed to procure for sale to the exchange some 6000 souvenir swords . It was noted that the recommendation was based on the fact that an original purchase order had been placed with the manufacturer and had not been cancelled in time to prevent the manufacture of some 6000 swords. In order to prevent monetary loss to the Japanese concern procurement of the remainder of the purchase order was approved .



I think these documents explain the origins of these swords

Ian Brooks

[BruceP]

Here is the document. It shows that Tenshozan factory was the only one allowed to remain open and was making these swords of the PX.

[GHP]

EXCELLENT!!


Well done, Bruce.

...for resale to the Exchange . I am not sure what the exchange is...

Please let Ian know that the "Exchange" is called NAAFI in the UK/Australia; he'll understand that.


Cheers,
-- Guy