Advice on collecting Japanese militaria

[Bcarver]

Hey guys, I am somewhat new to Japanese collecting and have started searching Ebay for medals and documents. That will be my main area of focus, and I am wondering if Japanese militaria is like German items, a minefield? Do people fake the medals and documents? Are there any sites, besides what is pinned here on WAF that teach the history and authenticity of these items? Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[GeorgeP]

I personally don't think that Japanese militaria is at the level of German militaria in the way of fakes yet. It certainly seems to be going in that direction though. I believe that pretty much every part of Japanese militaria has been affected by fakes and fantasy pieces, to varying degrees of success. If the items haven't been outright manufactured as fakes, then they have been humped up somehow. The realm of Japanese rifles has been affected by this in particular. As to medals, I have heard that some stuff is coming out of Russia recently. When you talk about documents, are you collecting medal documents or documents in general? Japanese ID documents are my focus, and I haven't really seen much in the way of fakery there, although there have been a couple documents that I have questioned. I don't collect medal documents all that much, but I would think that while there might be some repro. issues, they are not on par with other aspects of collecting Japanese militaria.

Tom

[GHP]

There are three types of fakery regarding yosegaki flags, the so-called "prayer flags" with patriotic mottos and signatures of well-wishers.

1. Fakes created by the SeaBees during and after WWII. These were made as souvenirs for GIs who bought the flag and "war story". Though fakes, they do represent a piece of war history. They often have fake "Japanese characters" made up of a mish-match of strokes and lines; sometimes they are actual Japanese words, but written in a way that it's easy to tell they are not written by anyone with any knowledge of writing Chinese/Japanese characters.

SeaBees doing what they do best:


Example:

In addition to fake Japanese "words," this example also has real Japanese words. However, the way they are written makes it easy to recognize them as being written by a Westerner, not a Japanese.



2. Fakes created today by a skilled Japanese man. His flags normally contain many names, but they mostly are signed by a single person. If you can read Japanese, it is somewhat noticeable. Here's the WAF thread.

Example:





3. Fakes created today by someone known as "Stampman." His flags usually incorporate bogus stamps (not the usual Shinto Shrine stamps).





--Guy

[zachb]

There are fakes but no where near like with German stuff. If you have not seen this site already, I recommend you check it out for medals and award documents:

http://imperialjapanmedalsandbadges.com/

Japanese War medals and Commemorative medals are a theme of my collection.

[Paloma_Man]

As a document guy, I have to back up everything said so far. I have seen a fake document, but it was intentional. The seller photocopied a larger order document. Why? Not sure, but it was ugly.

I have to agree with Tom about solider records. I am getting into navy documents. I have not found anything which seemed fake, but I have seen an entry (at least once) or lack of an entry that made me scratch head. The interesting thing about that is that you never really know the level of detail the solider or sailor had in general or that point of time. So, they may include brief entries for big events (we think they are big of course) and strong details on mundane events. For instance, I have yet to find an entry for the WWI Victory Medal in a soldier or sailor record. To my understanding, you would get it if you got the 1914-15 or 1914-20 war medals. I have at least three soldier or sailor documents which record the war medal(s), but not victory medal. Why? Who knows.

All this to say, sometimes you see the occasional odd things in sailor and soldiers records and that happens. Happy collecting and if you are looking for something in particular in documents, don't hesitate to ask!

[Jareth]

If your going to collect awards & medals I'd advise buying cased examples. Also, buy the best examples you can afford....or do layaway! You won't regret it

[GHP]

In-depth Info Regarding the WWI Victory Medal

...For instance, I have yet to find an entry for the WWI Victory Medal in a soldier or sailor record. To my understanding, you would get it if you got the 1914-15 or 1914-20 war medals. I have at least three soldier or sailor documents which record the war medal(s), but not victory medal. Why? Who knows. ...

Qualification was determined by the Allied powers; the French wanted only "combatants;" Japan wanted to include medics and others who directly supported combat operations.

---------FRANCE--------
18th June 1919
A bill to establish the medal was finally submitted to the French parliament in which Article 2 defined eligibility to the medal as follows:

-All Army and Navy soldiers who had served at least 3 months in combat troops formed after 10th August 1917, based on the ordinance promulgated on the 19th of the same month or in equivalent colonial units formed by order shall receive the medal.

-All Navy men having served at least 3 months in fleets designated in the ordinance of 24th January 1918

-The minimum service duration need not apply for those who had to retire from action due to injuries or illness.

-Medals for those who died before this announcement are to be presented to their next of kin.
-----
Check this thread

And on the next page:

The chart below shows how the [Japanese] army applied the scale to define eligibility of various types of personnel to the Victory Medal.

-The notes indicate those personnel must have merit ratings above that class to rate a Victory Medal.

-Soldiers serving outside the combat zone needed longer service and a higher merit rating than those in the combat zone.

-Civilians serving in the combat zone were added, due to the wording change to “Combatants”.

-“Combat zones” referred to Shangdong Province (山東省), Northern Manchuria or Eastern Siberia.

-NCOs with 3 months or less service in the army were all rated Class 11.

-Enlisted men with less than 6 months service in the army were all rated Class 11.


Class 1 殊勲・甲 (Shukun Koh) Outstanding Merits obvious to all military members (as per Art. 7 of Golden Kite Regs)
Class 2 殊勲・乙 (Shukun Otsu) Outstanding acts of bravery as per Chapter 2 of Golden Kite regulations
Class 3 勲功・甲 (Kun Koh Koh)　
Class 4 勲功・乙 (Kun Koh Otsu)
Class 5 勲功・丙 (Kun Koh Hei)
Class 6 勲功・丁 (Kun Koh Tei) Soldiers outside the combat zone with more than 60 days of service
Class 7 勲労・甲 (Kun Roh Koh)　
Class 8 勲労・乙 (Kun Roh Otsu)　
Class 9 勲労・丙 (Kun Roh Hei)　Soldiers and civilians in army with more than 30 days in combat zone
Class 10 功労・甲 (Koh Roh Koh) Not eligible for Victory Medal
Class 11 功労・乙 (Koh Roh Otsu) Not eligible for Victory Medal


To show how the above scale actually worked, here is the actual merit class breakdown for the civilians in military service in the combat zone during WWI

2,848 people or 60% were rated with merits insufficient for winning the Victory Medal, so only 40% of the civilians in the combat zone could have gotten the medal.

Class 1-2 殊勲 1 individual
Class 3-6 勲功 832 people
Class 7-9 勲労 1,046 people
Class 10-11 功労 2,848 people
Total 4,727 people

The entire thread is riveting!

--Guy

[Paloma_Man]

WWI Victory Medal

Guy,

Thanks for the reference. I guess this muddies the water even more! I wonder how many soldiers and sailors received a WWI war medal and did not receive the Victory medal?

These are the mysteries which keep document collectors going!

[101combatvet]

There are fakes but no where near like with German stuff. If you have not seen this site already, I recommend you check it out for medals and award documents:

http://imperialjapanmedalsandbadges.com/

Japanese War medals and Commemorative medals are a theme of my collection.

He's prices are totally insane.

[GHP]

He's prices are totally insane.

I guess it all depends on what the definition of "insane" is. I think his prices are reasonable ... insanely reasonable.

--Guy

Hmmmm .... looking at your member name .... perhaps I should change mine to "101peacetime-vet"? (^__^)
A/2/503d, 3d Bde, 101st ABN Div (AASLT)

[NARVIK1940]

Those prices are in Yen, not dollars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[101combatvet]

Those prices are in Yen, not dollars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Still rather high.

[101combatvet]

I guess it all depends on what the definition of "insane" is. I think his prices are reasonable ... insanely reasonable.

--Guy

Hmmmm .... looking at your member name .... perhaps I should change mine to "101peacetime-vet"? (^__^)
A/2/503d, 3d Bde, 101st ABN Div (AASLT)

I think you should, it will certainly impress someone in the Bay area.

[GHP]

I think you should, it will certainly impress someone in the Bay area.

"Peace-Love-Dove"

[imperialjapan]

He's prices are totally insane.

Although I realize this forum is not an appropriate place to promote one's website, I feel I have to make a short response to this comment, which seems a bit unfair because of the extreme 'totally insane' phrase.

First, I admittedly put a premium on some scarce items, and they often sell, but when they don't, I list them on ebay where they almost always sell for more than the original price on my site. But most other items are priced competitively (IMO) with ebay final values.

Second, the price also includes registered insured shipping. Sorry, but I cannot find many militaria sites that do that.

Anyway, the judgement of pricing is somewhat relative. If you think the prices are high, that's fine. I cannot argue with your opinion. But 'totally insane'? That phrase seems crafted to dissuade people from even looking at my site, which has 100s of pages of medal photos and info, and only 2 store pages.

OK, enough of this. Sorry to have taken up forum space on this selfish issue.

Best,
Rich