Translation please - Mitsubishi Banner with Torpedoes on it

[beretta1934]

Saw this on a famous auction site for a totally absurd asking price but I have to admit it's unlike anything else I've seen and i love the colors ! Would love to know the translation..

[GHP]

堂友会
Dō Yukai
[Dozaki Friends Association]

堂崎
Dōzaki

発射場
Dōzaki hasshaba
Dozaki Launch Site


--Guy

[GHP]

I think your flag is a post-war "veteran's" association flag for former workers at the Dozaki torpedo test site.

Site of the former Mitsubishi Dozaki Torpedo Manufacturing Test Site; and really rough "translations" done by Google-Translate:

現在は対岸の長与・堂崎に三菱の魚雷工場（発射試験場）もあり、今でも坂本竜馬より魚雷にゆかりある川棚で あり大村湾です。

The Mitsubishi Torpedo Factory (launch site) in Nagasaki Dozaki on the opposite shore.

the torpedo boat for special purposes is a place that is known as the "shakuhi", and on the river shelf there is a coastal factory that creates torpedoes, which is also an area near Omura but also Sasebo, which was an important place for the Imperial Navy in the military I guess. "Shakuhi" may have expected for the war shoots of a plywood boat, shaking the sea but material is material, so it is very weak to the waves, ...

By the way, Katashima with the ruins of the Kawashira Torpedo Examination Site is now inland but it was an island at that time.

More photos here


--Guy

[beretta1934]

Interesting Guy. So you think it leans towards postwar.

Thanks so much

David

[GHP]

Interesting Guy. So you think it leans towards postwar.

Thanks so much

David

I'm not certain ... although the writing is post-war left-to-right, the kanji on the flag are of the old style:
New: 発 会
Old: 發 會

Writing from left-to-right was sometimes done before 1945, but as a general rule-of-thumb, left-to-right is most often encountered in post-1945 writing.


--Guy

[beretta1934]

Guy

I might have inadvertantly influenced this translation and timeframe (wartime/postwar) placement! The banner has two sides with identical Knaji and I chose the side which had the banner oreinted like a flag (i.e. Pole on left). Please look at this other view and tell me what you think.

In the little I know, compared to your considerable exposure, of Japanese culture the postwar highlighting of ones role in the failed war is not too common and more socially associated with failue/shame then a place of pride and rallying (there are obvious exceptions - zero pilots assoc. ,etc). But especailly boasting (postwar?) around something like association with a weapon of offense destruction (i.e. torpedos). Anyway - just a thought. Good discussion points for sure!

[imperialjapan]

Although I'm not certain, I would lean toward it being pre-war, depending on the date when this Torpedo Site was established. That is, if it was established late-war (I saw something that suggested it was 1942), this is probably post-war. What is the 'totally absurd asking price?'

[GHP]

Guy

I might have inadvertantly influenced this translation and timeframe (wartime/postwar) placement! The banner has two sides with identical Knaji and I chose the side which had the banner oreinted like a flag (i.e. Pole on left). Please look at this other view and tell me what you think.

As the gatekeeper in "The Wizzard of Oz" stated to Dorothy:

"Welllll bust my buttons, why didn't you say that in the first place? That's a horse of a different color...!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T6umD9Z8HA

If I had seen that side first I never would have speculated about it being post-war.
I agree with Rich, it is war-era.


--Guy

[imperialjapan]

In the little I know, compared to your considerable exposure, of Japanese culture the postwar highlighting of ones role in the failed war is not too common and more socially associated with failue/shame then a place of pride and rallying (there are obvious exceptions - zero pilots assoc. ,etc). But especailly boasting (postwar?) around something like association with a weapon of offense destruction (i.e. torpedos). Anyway - just a thought. Good discussion points for sure!

Many veterans who specialized in certain skills were proud of their expertise and did indeed have martial elements in their association flags, etc. I would imagine these types of veteran groups were established in the 1960s. And just because there were military symbols on their flags, it doesn't mean most people would ever see the flags. These were probably only displayed during the group meetings.

[beretta1934]

Although I'm not certain, I would lean toward it being pre-war, depending on the date when this Torpedo Site was established. That is, if it was established late-war (I saw something that suggested it was 1942), this is probably post-war. What is the 'totally absurd asking price?'

Ttotally absurd is $1200 or best offer. Now marked down to $995 OBO so i imagine its getting pretty flexible. On a SF based Auction company site. Rymes with Feebay - "WWII JAPANESE MITSUBISHI BULLION STANDART FLAG TORPEDOE NAGASAKI" No, those are not typos on my part :-)

Nice size 32" x 40" - it does look really cool and unique

Up for grabs gentlemen - I'm just an inquiring mind.

Thanks for the help Rich and Guy

[imperialjapan]

Very cool but the price is crazy high, as you suspected. $150-200 USD? That's the high end unless there is some other really interesting piece of history attached. I still suspect it is 1960s until the site establishment date is confirmed.