Tensho or Slogan?

[BruceP]

Is this tensho script for a name, or is it some sort of good luck slogan?

[GeorgeP]

I would imagine it is a maker mark for the dagger, or at least part of the dagger. Comparable to the Suwa mark on sword guards. Couldn't tell you though, maybe there are imperial household approved shops that cranked these daggers out and this is one of the shop's marks on the guard.


Tom

[GHP]

Here's my original response in hopes it can jog someone's memory banks:

Try as I might, I cannot fathom the mark. It looks like a single kanji comprising 4 elements; and I can really be wrong. The mark is presented sideways now; it should be turned right 90º to read properly.

What I definitely see in the lower left quadrant is 正; above it looks like 山 -- but this can be very confusing since the style looks like the ancient seal script type of kanji.

山ム
正又

So that doesn't make sense to me at all.

That last element 又 might also be 五 [5] -- I've seen that done looking like a Roman Numeral X



====
Using the old seal script, this is kinda-sorta what it looks like to me (not including what looks like a + separating the four parts.




Again, I might be reading it wrong because of the seal-script kanji that are overly fluid -- sometimes the "radical" [element] is reversed for artistic purposes. Example using 緑 "green" (not part of the marking, just an example); note the "thread" radical 糸 has been reversed:



Let me know if someone is able to get a read on that mark.

Regards,
--Guy

[BruceP]

Guy, thanks for posting. I thought of l copying your earlier reply and pasting, but I didn't want to assume as it was via PM. I know I've seen a discussion about these sort of markings, maybe on Nihonto Message Board, maybe the "Stamp" discussion. I'll prowl around to see if I can find it.

[BruceP]

Using Guy's symbols, I found a translation software that gives some definitions. My attempts at translating kanji have been pretty poor, so I post this in the hopes it will trigger someone who really knows! I also don't know the proper order the symbols should be read through the square, but then, if they might not be meant to be a sentence, but more a collection of meaningful ideas:
ム - Moon
山 - Top; summit; mountain
正 - True; righteous; just; honets; rightfully
又 - Again; moreover; too; once

I suspect it is a collection of meaningful ideas like we say "God, Family, Country" or "Duty, Honor, Country", but I don't know and am still searching.

[GHP]

Using Guy's symbols, I found a translation software that gives some definitions. My attempts at translating kanji have been pretty poor, .... I suspect it is a collection of meaningful ideas like we say "God, Family, Country" or "Duty, Honor, Country", but I don't know and am still searching.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!!!!



Bruce, translating the individual elements of a single kanji generally won't work, all you get is what the "stand alone" kanji would mean -- not it's composite. I think the four symbols are part of a single kanji (and I am probably wrong, but!); or perhaps two kanji.

Example:

峠
Tōge. If you break down this kanji into its individual components, you get:

山
Yama: mountain

上
Ue/Kami: up

下
Sh!ta/Shimo: down

Now what could THAT mean? The mountain is up and down? There are ups and downs in a mountain?

No .... This means "mountain pass." You can see the mountain 山; the "pass" is created by the horizontal area between 上下.

裃 is similar: This individually breaks down to: 示 = display, 上 up, 下 down. What??? This is kamishimo, the formal outfit worn by samurai; the up/kami and down/shimo refer to the upper and lower parts of the costume (kataginu and hakama).



Cheers!
--Guy

[BruceP]

I am but a young grasshoppa