Question on a Wakisazhi

[Luis22]

Hello Guys,

According to sellers info this wakisazhi was made in 1617 but it has a stamp on the spine that seems to me like a Showa Seki stamp?? Any ideas?

[gunto]

Something looks wrong , it has Seki stamp and the date is from the Genwa or Tenwa period ? 1619 or 1681.

How is it mounted?

It sure looks like a ww2 blade.

[Luis22]

Its mounted on a shirasaya also the tang has no signs of any rust for a 400 yr old sword??

[Rod G]

The file marks are still visible and no rust on the nakago, plus the engraving looks pretty fresh. I don't think it was mean't to deceive as there's no artificial messing around showing, maybe it's a copy of an early piece. If he's trying to pass it off as a 400 year old blade the issue might be with an uneducated vendor?

Rod

[GHP]

Looks Fishy to Me

濃州住兼俊
Ko-shū jū Kanetoshi

This is okay.
I found another on-line:

This is a Japanese NLF (Naval Landing Force) officer`s sword in type 44 mountings. The blade is signed "Noshu ju Kanetoshi 濃州住兼俊", dated "Showa Jukyu-nen Go-gatsu hi (May. 1944) 昭和十九年五月" with star stamp stamped.
source

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This part of the engraving is FISHY!!!
元和日亥三年二月
[亥 = Boar year; perhaps the forger was trying to write 己亥]
All pink kanji look like they were done by a different, less experienced hand; maybe not the 二 2 (cui bono?)? They are totally different from the other kanji engravings on the nakago.
[EDIT: Also, look at the even spacing of all the other kanji; then, compare that spacing to the section 日亥三. See how the 日 kanji is way to the right of the line and is not centered? And the horizontal strokes in 三 3 and 二 2 are just straight lines; they would have been slightly curved as you see in the base-horizontal line in 年 year.]

I think the kanji were filed down and forged over. I THINK originally it was
昭和十..年二月
Shōwa 10..[18, 19, etc.] Year, February


元和 GENWA = 1615 so we need to find a zodiac date that falls on 1615.

I'm NOT aware of an era date + zodiac + years format. It's always been either:
1. Era date + year [e.g., Heisei 3 Year...]
2. Era date + zodiac [e.g. Showa 甲子 year = 1984]; they have a zodiac date for EVERY year so we do not need to indicate additionally "3rd year."

Year of Boar cycle (full 60 years for the various element + animal combinations)
12. 乙亥 Kinoto I [1575; 1635]
36. 己亥 Tsuchinoto I [1659]
48. 幸亥 Kanoto I [1611]
60. 癸亥 Mizunoto I [1623]

元和乙卯 = 1615
元和丙辰 = 1616
元和丁巳 = 1617
元和戊午 = 1618
None of the above are close to being a 亥 BOAR

Just for fun, here's the Japanese zodiac in years. It's in Japanese, but the numbers are arabic -- so no confusion. Go to the yellow chart on the right margin and click each kanji, and it will open to a page showing all the years in the past AND future that will use that combination.

When I had my sword made, the smith dated it:
昭和甲子年 which is 1984.

The next year the combination 甲子 will be used is 2044.


--Guy

[Bob Coleman]

The Seki stamp alone would dismiss this as being an early Edo blade. Possibly this was made as a copy of another sword for the owner. Although very rare, an older blade can be found with a nakago in the white. I recall a wakizashi by Kawachi no Kami Sukesada with kikumon that had no patination and looked as though it had been made the prior day.. I also once owned a mid 19th Bizen wakizashi by Sukekane with a nakago in similar condition. Both blades still had ububa and were mounted in shirasaya. Both had been very carefully stored over the years.

[Stu W]

To my eye some of the kanji have been done with a chisel and with confidence. Others appear to have been gouged out reminding me of a gimei piece I had years ago that had been done with an electric graver.

Lui22, can you provide a link to the sale?

Regards,
Stu

[Luis22]

To my eye some of the kanji have been done with a chisel and with confidence. Others appear to have been gouged out reminding me of a gimei piece I had years ago that had been done with an electric graver.

Lui22, can you provide a link to the sale?

Regards,
Stu

hERE http://www.ebay.com/itm/261772106040...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
THE SELLER SAYS THAT HE IS EVEN GETTING THE ORIGAMI..

[gunto]

It looks wrong. Like it was broken and reshaped.

[Brian Robinson]

Great analysis Guy!
This sword has all sorts of fakery going on. The more you look at that date, the more it is obvious half the mei was removed and it was recut. It is pretty obviously deception. The length and proportions also do suggest it was shortened from the top.
Lots of beware going on here. And to boot, the way the seller describesit, makes it appear he knows exactly what the issues are here.
Possibly the mei was changed to be able to register an otherwise illegal sword in Japan? Either way, there is no way it is what it states it is.

Brian

[gunto]

Reserve not met , at 1225 usd. Now for sale ,BIN prox. 1500 usd.
Totally insane fruitcake!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-SAM.../251845109436?

[brannow]

The Seki stamp says it all.

Bill Rannow
Mpls, MN