Repatriating Samurai swords

[CPB]

I have a line on a couple of WW2 Samurai swords right now.

But the veteran's son who owns them has heard some swords have family names inscribed[?] on them, which means they can be traced to their family in Japan - who then pay "big bucks" for them.

News to me...

Has anyone else heard of this happening?

[Brian Robinson]

It's nonsense.
Usually, the family wants nothing to do with swords. Modern Japanese often regard these swords with shame or embarassment. They often refuse to contemplate their return. They are a symbol of a time that modern Japan wants to forget.
Also remember that the majority of swords are arsenal/mass produced wartime swords that are illegal in Japan. They cannot be owned there.
The registration process to own those that are allowed is something many people don't want to go through.
And lastly..in the very few cases that I have heard of, swords that were returned to family of soldiers were all given back for free. It is unlikely (in fact almost unheard of) for the family to pay for a sword to be returned.
It's just not going to happen.
So....for all of this to happen, the sword would have to be 100% traditionally made and either a Gendaito or an antique sword taken to war. Then it would have to have a decent surrender tag attached that leads back to the correct area and family over 60 years later. Then they would actually want to have the sword back. And after all of that, the sword would have to be one of the 0.01% or so of valuable swords that are made by top smiths, and somehow survived in good condition.
Sorry..not going to happen. It's all wive's tales.

Brian

[CPB]

Thanks Brian, that's good information.

[Stu W]

Not that Brian's opinion needs any bolstering from me but I'll add that I concur 100%.

Regards,
Stu

[vonStubben]

Not that Brian's opinion needs any bolstering from me but I'll add that I concur 100%.

Regards,
Stu

I'll second that in case you need to provide the son with "proof" from others who are in the know.

Chuck

[GHP]

I'll second that in case you need to provide the son with "proof" from others who are in the know.

Chuck

[BobI]

I totally agree, if he wants them to go to a worth place I deal with a museum that is always happy to receive donations.
Best Wishes,
Bob
PS- Even if the family would want it, assuming there is a way of locating them. There is a legal process to go through. If the sword(s) do not follow strict guidelines they may end up cut. It has to be true Nihonto to have a chance

[Stu W]

Just curious. Are these the same two as in your other thread?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=673480

Regards
Stu

[CPB]

Hey Stu, yes that's correct.

[Bob Coleman]

There is no way to trace who carried these swords. Sword number 2 would never be allowed in to Japan. Without more information on sword 1, that could be the same case. How does your friend think he can find the decendants of these blades? It is also my experience, that if the sword was of any value, relatives would want it only to resell. There is still a very strong anti-war sentiment in Japan due to what the country and people endured under a military government. Retun is only a pipe dream.

[juoneen]

A friend of mine named Charlie vogt came across a national treasure missing sword in the 50's(like 1956 or so) from a vet just post war....the Japanese Government upon his noticing them of his offering it to sell it back to them offered him 56,000.00 an all paid round trip to japan for a week I believe...meals and all included....he took them up on the offer, and did the deal in japan...

There are still several missing national treasures, but as for other common 30's maker swords, or shortened refitted swords carried In ww2, were mostly military fitted family blades, or smith made, from after the turn of the century, or just prior...and or machine made blades that are numbered. The chances of finding a national treasure is greater than winning the new powerball with the added numbers....

This vet could see your anxious look on your face ...telegraphing you are freaked....and so ....sometimes stories of blades were told of returning to japanese veterans family ...are one in a million who would give away any sword , after what they did to our fellows...always sell them to collectors, and if a japanese family wants one back ...they have to pay like everyone else....we paid for this stuff with real blood and guts...and in the case of the japanese...ours, and many britts heads...by their treachery..they still have american and british heads in many japanese family collections...we have theirs here also....be polite to the vet....tell em if they are going to do that the japanes cut all blades even German 98 bayonetsalso... unless special permits are obtained, even german bayonets, and then are re welded...at least that was how it used to be...

Ask what he wants, and either pay up, or leave him an offer...most guys with swords who don't get what they want right off...take them to other dealers(that pisses em off) , and likely you'll never have a second chance again...but sometimes you can trade...others they only want what they want in greenbacks. Good luck....do notever look disparaged even if the guy tells you he may do something different than what you offer....as sometimes they call you back....just make em a "Standing offer."

[GHP]

..in the case of the japanese...<...>..they still have american and british heads in many japanese family collections

Juoneen, the rest of your statement is sound; however, I really have to call you on this statement. Do you know it first-hand -- were you visiting a Japanese family and they showed you the skull? Have you seen photographs showing a Japanese family retaining an enemy skull? Or, have you "heard stories"?

Seriously, I've got no doubt about Japanese skulls being here in the US because I've seen one myself many years ago at a gun show (with the ID tag). But I really need to be convinced that a Japanese collector keeps one -- that just does not sound like the Japanese I know -- they just do not like "spirits" in the house and that is what a skull carries with it.

I can be convinced, but I do need corroborating statements or other proof.

--Guy

[BobI]

When art swords were "hot" back in the 80s and there were a lot of collectors around. I remember stories about families that had Kabuto in their houses. They were scared to death of these Kabuto. So, I really doubt they would want heads around. Even with my background, the though of heads around really disgusts me, yuk!
Best Wishes,
Bob

[gunto]

Spooky........MUHHAHA!!!

[Bob Coleman]

GHP-
I must agree with all that you wrote. I have also personally witnessed jars of gold teeth and scalps with the hair braided as a tie down for a Randall knife. Years ago at the Max Show, I was totally disgusted when the show auction sold a Japanese femur that some serviceman had made in to an object of scrimshaw.
I also have seen a skull. Much subhuman brutality occured in all sides in the Pacific War. Much of it was based on racial intolerance on all sides.