Late war sword?

[Ed Hicks]

I have doubts in this case:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Lat...item53f8ff3d3e

What are your thougts? Early china-fake? Stupid tourist souvenir or really late war theater made????

Good questions to ask and always trust, but verify prior to spending hard earned cash...I was asked about this sword just now by a forum member who had an interest in it.

In my opinion, based on 35 years of collecting experience (losing money on bad swords shortens the learning curve), this is a true WWII late war sword,most likely produced outside of Japan...The sword you question is similar to many I have owned over the years, many of which were directly purchased from WWII veterans and their immediate heirs...The sword on auction is part of a large 100 sword collection gathered by an experienced collector who ceased collecting in the early 1990s, long before Chinese fakes entered the market and the internet existed (at least I don't think there was an internet back then).

There is another possibility that I hadn't considered...I had a sword like this on my table at a show over 20 years ago and a WWII veteran stopped by and started laughing...Once he stopped I asked what the joke was and he related that he was a SeaBee in WWII and that reminded him of the "Samurai swords" he and his crew made during and after the war...He then followed up with an interesting description of all the "war relics" they made in their machine shops...Years later I ran across a SeaBee unit history showing sailors with some of their "relics" displayed.

As an aside I will mention that my mother-in-law told me how she and the Japanese were trained as young girls with spears (naginata) as the Japanese prepared to repel the foreign invaders (she was fire bombed out of her homes three times in Tokyo)...Being a collector I asked if these were real antique spears and she replied that they were given crude locally made spears and even wooden staffs to train with...Last ditch weapons indeed.

I always encourage opinions on Wehrmacht Awards or any public or private forum and thoughtful input is certainly useful to all, but I do stand behind all that I offer as a dealer and as a collector...Having said that I will likely remove this listing so that I don't harm any gentle viewers' keen sensibilities and give them cause to have harsh words, I am far too serious a collector and dealer to waste time on trash or trash talk... I appreciate this discussion and I do caution you to be sure what you are buying is fully what you expect.



Best regards, Ed

[Ed Hicks]

Stu,

There is another possibility that I hadn't considered...I had a sword like this on my table at a show over 20 years ago and a WWII veteran stopped by and started laughing...Once he stopped I asked what the joke was and he related that he was a SeaBee in WWII and that reminded him of the "Samurai swords" he and his crew made during and after the war...He then followed up with an interesting description of all the "war relics" they made in their machine shops...Years later I ran across a SeaBee unit history showing sailors with some of their "relics" displayed.

As an aside I will mention that my mother-in-law told me how she and the Japanese were trained as young girls with spears (naginata) as the Japanese prepared to repel the foreign invaders (she was fire bombed out of her homes three times in Tokyo)...Being a collector I asked if these were real antique spears and she replied that they were given crude locally made spears and even wooden staffs to train with...Last ditch weapons indeed.

Ed

I think this one falls into the catch all group of swords referred to by Dr. Richard Stein as 1945 "desperation" non traditionally made end of war swords. They were made in both Japan and their occupied territories out of inferior materials and as he further states were really swords in form only. Here's a link to a page on his web site where he comments to that effect.

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esteinrl/military.htm

This was about the time when almost anything sharp or pointed was being strapped onto a pole in preparation for repelling the invasion of the home islands that the Japanese seemed to feel was imminent.

It could also be a fake, but over time I have become much slower to label some of these oddities fakes because we are learning more about them all the time and a number were indeed period made.

Regards,
Stu

[GHP]

...
As an aside I will mention that my mother-in-law told me how she and the Japanese were trained as young girls with spears (naginata) as the Japanese prepared to repel the foreign invaders (she was fire bombed out of her homes three times in Tokyo)...Being a collector I asked if these were real antique spears and she replied that they were given crude locally made spears and even wooden staffs to train with...Last ditch weapons indeed....

And even green bamboo spears. My mother-in-law (3rd rank in naginata) and her sister both received instructions: To aim for the paratrooper's groin just before he hits the ground."

My swordsmanship teacher, Nakamura Taizaburo, traveled throughout Japan also giving classes on bamboo spear techniques to women & Home Guard before the end of the war.

Here's a YouTube clip from "Einaru Budo" ["Budo: The Art of Killing" in the US] in which he cuts bamboo/straw mats.

--Guy

[Ed Hicks]

Guy, thanks for your reply and, frankly, I doubt my mother-in-law would have needed a spear or any other weapon knowing her as well as I do (she's hard as wood pecker lips and mean as hell)...I have to say it's a damned good thing we didn't have to invade Japan with young girls like her ready to carve them up...I later learned a lot more about her war years life and occupation experiences and she truly was tough as nails as a teenager and she did not mellow with the years!

[Stu W]

... she's hard as wood pecker lips ...

There really should be a thread pinned somewhere on the forum where we can save these gems.

[ral6014]

Oooops....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-NICE-WW...item4d0cacfc69

[checkit]

Oooops....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-NICE-WW...item4d0cacfc69

I saw a blade exactly like this one back around 1980. It was a very tired Samurai era Tachi blade with a big Hagiri. The tang had been crudely shaped just like this one and it had that same dumbass character stamped on it. But is was without question an authentic old Samurai blade.

The Tsuba was also very odd - an old Samurai era Tsuba that had been cut in half and then welded back together. The guy owned a tavern and I bought several Japanese swords from him that he bought from vet customers. I still have one from him that got papered,

[GHP]

I saw a blade exactly like this one back around 1980. It was a very tired Samurai era Tachi blade with a big Hagiri. The tang had been crudely shaped just like this one and it had that same dumbass character stamped on it. But is was without question an authentic old Samurai blade......

What do you surmise is the purpose for the notches on the nakago-mune; possibly to aid in recurving the nakago?

--Guy

[checkit]

Not uncommon to see these notches on mediocre stuff, but the purpose is not clear.

You see a lot of small, thin blades that look like they were made for the early tourist market, an example being those bone-mounted Tanto, and they often have these notches. I just picked up a Wakizashi at an estate sale with that feature. Does not appear to be related to reshaping the blade.

[ral6014]

An old an genuine blade??? Poor made tsuba, same and kashira are nearly the same like by the "tourist-fake-early chinese repro" sword which was discussed in this thread...... I have to wonder......