Shattering a Myth, the China Incident Commemorative Medal

[GHolp]

Very interesting, thank you very much Nick!

Best,
Chris

[Nick Komiya]

As requested, the original spec drawing attached to the China Incident Commemorative Medal Order
signed by the Emperor and Tojo on 25th Sept 1942

[Nick Komiya]

Yes, this medal is not as rare as they say. I have 3 without having really sought them out, and had I really wanted to collect them, I would have easily accumulated a dozen, but if the China Incident War Medal were a clover, the commemorative medal will be a 4-leafer for sure.

[JapanX]

Yes, this medal is not as rare as they say. I have 3 without having really sought them out, and had I really wanted to collect them, I would have easily accumulated a dozen, but if the China Incident War Medal were a clover, the commemorative medal will be a 4-leafer for sure.

Thanks for original design photo Nick!

Collect them? I don't think that there will be volunteer for that
They are practically identical (only small insignificant stamp differences) ...

The really interesting question why there are no boxes... I've seen around 20 of them and no boxes around (of course same goes for the great east Asia medal).
Late war difficulties? I don't buy that. Bokusho badges are from late 1944, but they are boxed, same thing with late-war badges...

And why no documents? Ok, it's quite understandable in case of great east Asia, but why no documents on China incident commemorative?!

Just a thought... And they are a rhetorical questions Nick

[Nick Komiya]

Good rhetorical questions, but ones that are open to speculation that have the makings of a cloak and dagger myth part 2, which in some years will be revealed as a product of a crazed mind. Would you like to volunteer playing the crazed mind?

Next time, I have a potato chip binge, I'll tell you guys about the behind the scenes drama over the WW1 Victory Medal, how the Allied nations tried to outdo each other like children, who haven't yet learned how to share.

[JapanX]

Good rhetorical questions, but ones that are open to speculation that have the makings of a cloak and dagger myth part 2, which in some years will be revealed as a product of a crazed mind. Would you like to volunteer playing the crazed ...

Let's just wait...
There are a lot of crazies ...

[JapanX]

Good rhetorical questions, but ones that are open to speculation that have the makings of a cloak and dagger myth part 2, which in some years will be revealed as a product of a crazed mind. Would you like to volunteer playing the crazed ...

Let's just wait...

[Nick Komiya]

A small post script is perhaps in order to address the post war fate of the 3 medals featured in this thread. The 2 China Medals as well as the Greater East Asia medal were all officially rescinded by an order dated March 15th 1946. So all 3 medals were invalidated. We all probably had the impression that the Greater East Asia War medal ended its life when the Americans confiscated what had been produced and destroyed them, but that was not so. A memo from March 1946 reveals that the posthumous awarding of the Greater East Asia medal to approx. 300 thous. individuals had been sanctioned. Therefore the government owed them delivery. "However, because of the Dec 15 1945 GHQ memorandum prohibiting the use of the word "Greater East Asia War" in any public form, we would first need to redesign the medal, if we were to issue them" . Regarding the China Incident War Medal, they say that 3.4 million pieces had been issued, and as to the state of the China commemorative medal they say the official sanction for issuance by the emperor was still pending.　They conclude by stating that continuation of these three medals will become a touchy issue with the Allied nations, so it was better to play it safe and retract them. The way this memo reads the commemorative medal had not been issued yet. That's odd, but we love mysteries, so let's leave that one there.

[Nick Komiya]

Just found a memo dated May 23, 1944 saying that starting from the citations for the Greater East Asia War Medal, they would simplify the manner in which the title of the recipient will be written. They are referring to the court rank, etc preceding the name. The reason was simply that they were too busy to write all that and because ones status may change in between and create the embarrassment of receiving a citation with an outdated title. The Paper pusher's nightmare was about to end.

[kaigunair]

nick, thank you again for articles like this one. I'm going to have to compile your answers into a word doc so I can add the sheets to my jpn medals book.

This was a real treat!

[JapanX]

.... That's odd, but we love mysteries, so let's leave that one there.

O yessssssss we are! Very... Sometimes too much

By the way, what do you think about the photo of this medal in Petersen book. Topsy-turvy bar inscription...

Got a sec for this one?

[Nick Komiya]

You've been busy on the other forum today. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Oh, yes, the bar. One can clearly see that the medal was original, only the bar is strange. Now that you know the post war story of the medal, you know that from the mint's point of view they still had an obligation to deliver, because no one told them to officially drop it. They could assume that the wording on the medal was now void, but it's not their job to think of a new name, so until someone decided a name the Americans would allow, at least they could prototype alternatives to adapt the medal to the post war age. To get it past the Americans you'd want to do everything that didn't change the essence, but show some changes that can curry favor with the Yanks. "Oh boss, now we write it American style, from left to right!" That's my best shot at fiction.
The movie version will feature a lookalike of Marlon Brando's character, Sekine from the movie "Tea House of the August Moon".
It's clearly a prototype because it violates the Order. The question is was the proto pre-institution or post, and what was the motive to defy a longstanding tradition? It is very unlikely to me that this was a pre/45 prototype.

[JapanX]

I'm going to have to compile your answers into a word doc so I can add the sheets to my jpn medals book.

Guess my questions will be deleted from this booklet...

[JapanX]

You've been busy on the other forum today. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

It's for Scott ... I wonder if there will be any comments...

Oh, yes, the bar. One can clearly see that the medal was original...

Do you really think so?!
I wonder who is this "one"?

They could assume that the wording on the medal was now void, but it's not their job to think of a new name, so until someone decided a name the Americans would allow, at least they could prototype alternatives to adapt the medal to the post war age. To get it past the Americans you'd want to do everything that didn't change the essence, but show some changes that can curry favor with the Yanks. "Oh boss, now we write it American style, from left to right!" That's my best shot at fiction.
The movie version will feature a lookalike of Marlon Brando's character, Sekine from the movie "Tea House of the August Moon".

You should left Germany for good and go to Hollywood!!!
They will kill for stuff like that

[Nick Komiya]

Oh, I read a thread before where a complaint was raised that the few who know how to tell a fake from a good Greater East Asia Medal were keeping that info to themselves. I could write a book and charge you for it, but what is the sense of holding back such obvious info as if I had invented the difference?
Originals of the medal are pewter, so you can bend them quite easily. Originals were specified as 30mm in diameter, but repros are often bigger by a millimeter or so. These are enough to tell repros apart from originals, because all repros use better quality harder metal. There is a myth that the stamping dies had survived and repros are made from original dies. I don't believe that, because all repros are obvoiusly different from the real thing.