Japanese Navy use of the Czech VZ24 Rifle

[Papa Nambu]

I have a Czech made VZ24 rifle with a "P" series serial number and the "1937" date on the receiver. As many of you know, some of these were used by the IJN, but unless you had capture papers or an original Japanese marked sling it was hard to be sure. Even the example used in my copy of "Military Rifles of Japan" has a Czech Army acceptance stamp, meaning it probably stayed in Czechoslovakia when the Czechs decided they needed the rifles for themselves. A rifle that was made to be exported should not have a Czech army acceptance stamp.
However there are different theories on how Japan got these rifles, one being the the Germans sold them after occupation. In this case, it would be possible for ex-Czech army rifles to be included, but it seems more likely the Germans would keep these for themselves, a rifle much like their own K98 that uses the same ammunition. The other theories are that the Czechs sold the rifles to the Japanese navy, or that they were sold to China and the Japanese intercepted the shipment.





Anyway, I was looking over a VZ24 I had just bought to clean it up and I noticed some very small stamps in the wood stock on the grip area behind the trigger.


One looks like a "7", the other I'm not sure about, possibly a kanji but at this size I can't say. Even if I could be sure it was kanji, it could still be Chinese.


But this one is definitely a Japanese katakana "wa" ワ. Chinese doesn't use katakana. This is pretty good evidence of Japanese use.

I'd like those of you who have one of these or know anyone who does to have a look and see if your rifles might have this mark or other marks. This may help in identifying which of these rifles saw service with the Japanese.

[Mike Steves]

I had P series VZ24 (recently sold it- 37 date receiver with 38 acceptance) with Czech military acceptance markings on the receiver as yours has. Mine also had Japanese Navy markings painted on the stock.

So, just because it has Czech military acceptance is not 100% indicator as you say. There is a book in Czech language that gives serial ranges of rifles sold to Japan, and included are Czech military accepted examples.

[Papa Nambu]

I had P series VZ24 (recently sold it- 37 date receiver with 38 acceptance) with Czech military acceptance markings on the receiver as yours has. Mine also had Japanese Navy markings painted on the stock.

So, just because it has Czech military acceptance is not 100% indicator as you say. There is a book in Czech language that gives serial ranges of rifles sold to Japan, and included are Czech military accepted examples.

Thanks for the input, Mike. I wish you still had the rifle or some photos of the markings.

So people will know what we are talking about, this a Czech Army acceptance marking. (My rifle does not have this mark)

[Mike Steves]

I have photos of the markings- first photo showing painted Naval unit markings and second showing Czech military acceptance. I never noticed any stamped markings in the wood.

[Jareth]

nice! Wish I'd known. ): I've been looking to buy a P series VZ24 with Japanese stock kanji.

[lsmilitaria]

This is a pretty interesting thread. I did not know the Japanese used the VZ24. I myself have a VZ24 that was used by the Germans. I don't think the Germans sold them to japan. As already mentioned, the Germans kept them for themselves since it was agreed that the vz was on par with the 98k. Also, they modified the VZ to fit there needs. A take down bolt was inserted into the stock and the swivel for the Czech sling was removed and plugged. Lastly the Czech bayonets had the muzzle rings ground off and the blades were blued. Most of these captured and modified VZ's were issued to the SS.

I did not mean to hijack this thread, just wanted to point out some things is all.

[lsmilitaria]

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[Mike Steves]

The Czechs sold them to Japan and to China prior to German occupation, and after occupation the Germans did indeed allow the Czechs to sell VZ24's to Romania and Japan, both Axis powers.

You are correct too, the Germans used VZ24 rifles in large numbers and there are many different variations of modifications to them.

[lsmilitaria]

very interesting. Thanks for the info.

Jasin

[Papa Nambu]

Jasin-
If you could, please check your rifle for any of the stock stamps shown above. Since your rifle was in German service and never went to Japan, if you have any of the same stamps we could eliminate those as being of possible Japanese origin.

[lsmilitaria]

Here are photos of the markings on my rifle. Just behind the trigger guard I have the Czech "Circle Z" and a "H". Im assuming the Germans marked it H for Heer as they did on the K98's. No markings on on the butt except for the serial number. Hard to make out, but I think the letter before the numbers might be an H also. I could be wrong.

Jason

[lsmilitaria]

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[Jareth]

Please do a search on VZ24 rifles on this site for a real wealth of information not mentioned above http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdis...The-Rising-Sun