Rising Sun 4th Class

[C.C.Reilly]

I had the impression that 4^th class Japanese decorations were supposed to have the rosette on ribbon as an indicator of the award class. Yet I have seen some 4^th Class Order of the Rising Sun mwdals having the correct hinged to a three-lobed spray of jade green enameled Paulownia leaves, surmounted by the correct sets of purple enameled Paulownia flowers on green stalks without the rosette on the ribbon. . Does the correct medal have a different significance without the ribbon rosette?



I am very curious about this and appreciate any insight.

Thanks in advance!

[Nick Komiya]

It was only from 1886 that the 4th classes got the rosette to differentiate them better from the 5th classes, which was a problem in black and white photographs for instance. At that time, new ribbons were also given out to winners who got their 4th class awards prior to that date, but those who did not change it would have no rosettes.

[Tim B.]

Here's a couple examples from my collection that have the rosettes.

The one with the Meiji era case might actually be another Showa era medal mismatched with the Meiji era case/rosette. I am not 100% positive there, as the information is not that prevalent on Japanese awards as it is with other countries ODM's. The example is marked with the Osaka Mint "M" mark though.

Tim

[zachb]

Tim, those are nice examples.

[C.C.Reilly]

Replies

Thanks everyone, for the great information!

[Tim B.]

Tim, those are nice examples.

Hi Zach,

Thanks for the complements and believe me when I say that the PIC's do not do justice to the actual examples in hand. These are very hard to photograph and get everything to come out correctly. They are both very beautiful and in excellent condition.

Tim

Here's a couple more PIC's of the two:

Showa

[Tim B.]

The one with the Meiji era case, mint marked "M".

Note the rosette style. It is of the earlier Meiji style, though I am not sure if it's actually to a 5th class Rising Sun or if it was used for both the 5th/4th class awards, as the pleated rosette style (as shown above on the Showa example) may have come later.

Unfortunately, I just don't have more information on these items.

Tim

[Nick Komiya]

The one with the Meiji era case, mint marked "M".

Note the rosette style. It is of the earlier Meiji style, though I am not sure if it's actually to a 5th class Rising Sun or if it was used for both the 5th/4th class awards
Tim

That rosette was common to the 3rd and 4th class Suns as prescribed by the regulations issued in Dec 1877. It was only from 30th March 1935 that each class got its distictive rosette. Until then, the same rosette was shared between 2 classes, 1st & 2nd, 3rd & 4th, 5th & 6th , 7th & 8th.

[Tim B.]

Hi Nick!

Is there an actual reference that spells this information out? I would love to see it or at least a page that might show these early rosettes and how they were shared between two award levels.

The one I show in the Meiji case above has the same number of rays that a later Showa period 5th class award would have, so any information that shows when and how these changed would be a great source of information for collectors.

Thanks!
Tim

[Nick Komiya]

Hi Nick!

Is there an actual reference that spells this information out? I would love to see it or at least a page that might show these early rosettes and how they were shared between two award levels.

Tim

Of course, it was announced as law, so it is spelled out in clear terms. It was part of the documentation instituting the Order of the Chrysanthemum dated 25th Dec. 1877, Daijo-kan release no. 97. Here is the official illustration.

[Nick Komiya]

I can even take you back further to April 1875 and show you the very first rosettes as well. At that time there were only 3 designs that had to be shared by 8 classes. These first type rosettes were only used from 1875 till 1877. Tim, I hope that answers your question.

[Nick Komiya]

For thoroughness, let's include the amendmend that Hirohito signed into law on 18th May 1936, which finally gave each class its own rosette design.

[Tim B.]

Hi Nick!

That's outstanding!! Many thanks for that information and illustrations that show this.

I guess now, I need to start posting my other awards here (need to take new PIC's) and maybe we can put together a comprehensive thread for collectors.

Thanks again Nick!

Tim

PM sent

[Nick Komiya]

Welcome Tim.
I have lot's of official info on early orders and medals, so such questions are welcome here.

[Tim B.]

That's one major benefit here, the serious collectors seem to share information more openly than at other forums, and for that I am very grateful!

Tim