U178 & Japan connection

[Nick Komiya]

I'll leave the stand design to you, but when someone slaps on that anchor emblem also horizontally flipped, thinking it gives everything a Naval flair when it actually says below
"Good Quality", he did himself in big time, nothing can save it any more.

[greyman]

What would you suggest

I'll leave the stand design to you, but when someone slaps on that anchor emblem also horizontally flipped, thinking it gives everything a Naval flair when it actually says below
"Good Quality", he did himself in big time, nothing can save it any more.

Setting aside the communication letters from the lady and assuming she was not a total liar, what would you suggest?. The sword is a well mounted Shin Gunto, the history is well documented & the metal on wood mounts seem genuine, what would you suggest?.
Roy

[Jareth]

Once again, buy the item, not the story. I trust & value Nick's opinion & insight.

[greyman]

True

Once again, buy the item, not the story. I trust & value Nick's opinion & insight.

Yes agreed,but am concerned that due to my restoration it has incorporated items that were in the "Bag of bits" may well distract from the actual history,

The letters are fact, the Kai gunto perfectly genuine, all but the characters which meant nothing at the time of restoration may be incorrect leaves me with the concern that perhaps it should be withdrawn from my web site. Not a dealer and the items offered are finite,certainly do not need hassel at my age.

Suggestions gentlemen would be appreciated.
Roy

[Nick Komiya]

The letters you have on the site from the lady are too small to read, so I don't know whether she is claiming that the sword was presented with the stand. You'll have to be the judge of how accurate the memory of that woman could have been, but it's clear to me that the stand did not come with the sword, if it was presented. The bogus metal characters aside, I still do not believe the stand has any Japanese content. Why would it have a flower motif that has no significance to a Japanese, done in a carving style that is so crude? Anyway, you are right that the stand contaminates the whole offer and makes everything questionable.
Similar to this example here http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...mann+Historica . Read post 16 and you'll see how condeming it can be to fool around with Greek thinking it's Greek to everyoneelse, too.

[greyman]

Reviewed

I am afraid that the sword stand was put together by someone who has no idea about the Japanese language. Someone cut the characters out of a press die or something, because they are all reverse stampings, requiring a horizontal flip to become legible. And what is written is also gibberish. I'm sorry for the bad news.

Thank you Nick, for a while there I was begining to get the impression of a crusade against me.

We could go on with this debate ad infinitum and reviewing my replies to you I am amused that I seemed to be slipping into a defencive mode when I have nothing to defend. That is the story,should any who wish to visit,see the sword ,letters,research,netsuke etc. All metal fittings excludeing the the missaplied characters are or appear to be silver & as to your comment re quality stand wise, I am sure you have seen late mounted swords and equipment?, much was poor quality but on we go again.

The sword and ephemera were not offered for sale to members of this forum and will not be.
Are you now saisfied or do we have a swords at dawn situation to defend my honour

Roy

[Nick Komiya]

I am sorry that my honest feedback had somehow been received by you as a personal attack. Rather I have been trying to tell you that insisting on that stand always having been with the sword will taint even a perfect original sword and you should maybe allow for memory failure in what had been passed down to you as its provenance instead of condeming the whole by presenting an old person's tale as gospel. I can normally imagine a grand son doing some tinkering to fix up Granpa with a stand so he could display it properly and to give it the right look he cut up a can of "High Quality Ton Pin Tea" and used the exotic characters to embellish it. It looked so convincing to a lay person that Grandma never realised that it was fabricated by family well after the war.
I told you I could not read what those letters are saying, that you had to be the judge whether something like what I imagined above could have transpired and allow you room to question the stand yet maintain the integrity of the sword. I didn't say that in as many words as it's not my business to help you sell your sword, so I let all that be expressed between the lines.
If you knew a military jacket was unquestionably original, but the overseas-style cap that the former owner's widow claims to have always been together is none other than a Mac Donalds cap, shouldn't you question the story rather than expect people like me to explain why the man went to war wearing a fast food overseas? I see a sword stand with a tea advertisement done in a way that you could only get the message when it's chasing after your car. That's a fact and if that fact comes out after you sell the set to someone, I'm afraid it will make life uncomfortable. So I thought you needed to know what you are getting yourself into. I have done what I thought I owed to a fellow forum member who sought opinions. Now you are informed, if you don't want to believe me and cling to the story, keep the sword, too, as it will always have more value to you than to others. You have every right to believe what you want, so keep the sword, the tea and your honor.

[greyman]

Thanks again

I am sorry that my honest feedback had somehow been received by you as a personal attack. Rather I have been trying to tell you that insisting on that stand always having been with the sword will taint even a perfect original sword and you should maybe allow for memory failure in what had been passed down to you as its provenance instead of condeming the whole by presenting an old person's tale as gospel. I can normally imagine a grand son doing some tinkering to fix up Granpa with a stand so he could display it properly and to give it the right look he cut up a can of "High Quality Ton Pin Tea" and used the exotic characters to embellish it. It looked so convincing to a lay person that Grandma never realised that it was fabricated by family well after the war.
I told you I could not read what those letters are saying, that you had to be the judge whether something like what I imagined above could have transpired and allow you room to question the stand yet maintain the integrity of the sword. I didn't say that in as many words as it's not my business to help you sell your sword, so I let all that be expressed between the lines.
If you knew a military jacket was unquestionably original, but the overseas-style cap that the former owner's widow claims to have always been together is none other than a Mac Donalds cap, shouldn't you question the story rather than expect people like me to explain why the man went to war wearing a fast food overseas? I see a sword stand with a tea advertisement done in a way that you could only get the message when it's chasing after your car. That's a fact and if that fact comes out after you sell the set to someone, I'm afraid it will make life uncomfortable. So I thought you needed to know what you are getting yourself into. I have done what I thought I owed to a fellow forum member who sought opinions. Now you are informed, if you don't want to believe me and cling to the story, keep the sword, too, as it will always have more value to you than to others. You have every right to believe what you want, so keep the sword, the tea and your honor.

I could get to like you old man although our humour is somewhat different. When I started selling my collection I went the way of ebay,500 positive feedback and only one negative which related to a shunga print. Built the web site and 200 sales later my large collection is now quite tiny but buyers come back time again so your advice is always valid. My response was I am afraid somewhat tongue in cheek {Olde English expression} so what I propose to do is add in general terms your thoughts on the stand & my agreement. I would guess that as Kai Gunto are always rare and sort after the value in that alone is near the asking price, the story,well make of it what you will, is a fascinating one and will give the buyer an area for research which we as military collectors allways enjoy.
Roy

[Nick Komiya]

Roy,
try this on for size. A tea can has a nice Navy-like anchor, an Asian Swastika and some nice Chinese characters. The Swastika needs to serve as the ones the Nazis used, but unfortunately the traditional Asian version is a horizontal flipped version, so the symbol had to be flipped over. However, that meant all the other Chinese characters also had to be flipped, because we are talking 3D here and otherwise they would have become reverse reliefs and would distroy the design. Everyone would find it odd if the Nazi symbol turned the wrong way, but no one reads Chinese in this neck of the woods, so why not flip?
Did a can inspire a story or did a story and an accidental can discovery inspire a kid's creativity? We'll never know.

By the way, if you really believe in the stand, you might want to change the end word in your link, as that is bad Karma, as Asians are always saying in Western novels.

Sorry, I only noticed now you had asked for help contacting a German guy. What are the coordinates, so I can check the phone book and see if I can make contact by phone?

Lastly, I flipped the photos for you here so all of us can appreciate some Chinese marketing without taking a drive.

[greyman]

Luv ya Nick

The Anchorand buddhist symbols are quite thick and solid silver which I doubt are from a tea container........

As to the Chinese thing, not sure what that is all about old chap but thanks for the Cha reference anyway as am a tea drinker and seems an avenue of collecting not yet explored. { suppose Cans did inspire that mad and deceased American pop artist....we all know about that>}

End link...lol{as the young people say} I re use web pages on the site,at one time that page had lrge numbers of seppa,mekugi,gunto fittings etc. Only a link and as far as Karma is concerned it comes into the same catagory as Fung Shui etc......"Cobblers"

According to a collector from Japan the characters are in fact Japanese and can be read in around six ways....lets stop there as nearing 70 I cannot I may drift into a "Monty python" sketch.

The chap in germany.
His name is Roland Mueller,has a web site...www.xing.com/profile/rolandmueller6

Address....Feldberg str.3, d65719,Hoffheim/ts

Have mailed him through another site,his own email address,written to him etc many7 time.Last communication was in early2010.
Any assistance would be appreciated,as I have both his money and Sword & although I have now offered the item as a defaulted transaction, I am not comfortable with this for obvious reasons,it has also affected my "Stage payment" system.

Thanks in advance.
Roy

[Nick Komiya]

Roy,
I have nothing more to add about your item, so rather than go around in circles and waste both of our time, let me just end this thread by responding to your request for assistance.
I finally reached Herr Müller for you after writting him and calling several different numbers. I was fearing the worst, but he is alive and well. Said he had changed his email address a while ago and hadn't heard from you since. His new email is roland.mueller@cafedigital. de
. The number in the phone book doesn't work, but the number at this site does http://www.duesenschrieb.de/contacts/ which is how I finally reached him. He is expecting to hear from you. The site also has an email address, if the one he gave me over the phone doesn't work for some reason. All yours now.

[greyman]

Good news

Roy,
I have nothing more to add about your item, so rather than go around in circles and waste both of our time, let me just end this thread by responding to your request for assistance.
I finally reached Herr Müller for you after writting him and calling several different numbers. I was fearing the worst, but he is alive and well. Said he had changed his email address a while ago and hadn't heard from you since. His new email is roland.mueller@cafedigital. de
. The number in the phone book doesn't work, but the number at this site does http://www.duesenschrieb.de/contacts/ which is how I finally reached him. He is expecting to hear from you. The site also has an email address, if the one he gave me over the phone doesn't work for some reason. All yours now.

Thats good news re Roland,many thanks.

Roy