Officer's uniform with ribbon bar (question)

[maverick87]

I got this officer's uniform from a family that was getting rid of their grandfather's collection. Looked good to me and the rank tabs seem to have nice invisible stitching, but my only concern is that the ribbon bar seems off.

The ribbon bar has an award for the first sino-japanese war of 1894 and the russo-japanese war of 1905, but the uniform is of post-1938 style right? So this means this officer was like a 60 year old captain with no other awards? I thought that the ribbon bar may have been added? Am I right about the awards too?

Anyone know alot about ribbon bars?


Thanks!
Matt

[zachb]

Matt,

The ribbon bar denotes the following:

1904-5 War Medal - 1894-5 War Medal - Rising Sun

Referencing the section on "order of precedence", in Richard Catalano's new book "Imperial Japan Medals and Badges Book #2", I can tell you that the ribbon bar is turned upside down. Orders come first before war medals and commemoratives for example. If turned around your ribbon bar would be in the correct order.

Though the rank insignia has invisible stitching these just don't sit right with me. In all fairness I would need to see them in person to have a more definitive opinion. Whether all of the conglomerate parts are original to each other I can't say, but the ribbon bar and uniform look like nice ones.

Zach

[maverick87]

But if the ribbon bar was original to the uniform, how could a man fight in 1894 sino japanese war and then wear this uniform (which came out in 1938 right?). At youngest, he would be 60 years old! That's what confused me.

As for the insignia, what in particular is suspicious?

Thanks for the help.

[zachb]

But if the ribbon bar was original to the uniform, how could a man fight in 1894 sino japanese war and then wear this uniform (which came out in 1938 right?). At youngest, he would be 60 years old! That's what confused me.

As for the insignia, what in particular is suspicious?

Thanks for the help.

Again I can't say that the ribbon bar and uniform belong together, just that individually they are nice pieces. Many retired / disabled veterans had rolls on the home front in WWII. I could see this uniform being worn by such a person (instructor ,etc. ), especially if that person was part of an organization. This is indeed a WWII period military uniform. Of course there may have been proscriptions against non-active personal wearing "modern" military uniforms but I would be surprised...I'm off on a rabbit trail.

As far as the insignia goes, it seems like the conventional wisdom used to be if the gold piping did not run to the edge or around the edge, there was cause for suspicion. I personally don't know if that is true or still considered a maxim among collectors. What bothers me, however, (and again I stress that it could be the photos) is the color of the red wool and the apparent inconsistency in the fading and aging of the individual components of the insignia.

[Tim B.]

On the ribbon bar; As stated already, it's upside down but if turned around, the ribbons would be in proper sequence.

As far as a Captain having more awards, you would think so. At a minimun, he would have a Sacred Treasure (long service award) but I also would expect to see at least a Tashio Enthronement Medal, maybe a Showa Enthronement Medal and one of the Red Cross medals as well.

Would a Captain rate a 3rd Class Sacred Treasure (neck award)? That might be why we don't see one on the bar, but I really can't say here. It is possible that he continued to wear the uniform in some home-front capacity during WWII, but again, I would expect to see more on a medal bar as stated above. I could be wrong.

Tim