Buying Japanese "rising sun" flags on eBay

[BrianK]

I've been collecting German TR militaria for a while, and want to branch out & collect WW2 Japanese items. I want to start out by buying a flag on eBay. Are there any tips on authenticity? Ideas on price? Rarity of the "meatball" vs the flag with rays? Thanks in advance.

[BrianK]

From the lack of response can I assume that buying on eBay is a bad way to find good flags? I've looked on websites & the only one that has any selection is Collector's Guild, And the prices seem high there.

[Jareth]

Brian, I figured our board flag expert would answer your question? Ebay is a good place to buy a flag IF your knowledgible. Until you are, I'd suggest you begin corresponding with a few of our more experienced collectors. Also you should do a search on the subject "flags" on the boards & read up. Signed rising suns are harder to find. Ebay is full of Japanese flags old & new, real & fake.

[MikeB]

Buying Japanese "rising sun" flags on ebay

Brian-
I just saw your post, here is what I can offer. Again, Jareth is correct (and much more succinct than I) in his evaluation of eBay. Let me ask you first, are you speaking about Japanese unsigned or signed national flags (Good Luck flags,) Japanese rayed flags(signed,) or Japanese rayed flags (unsigned?)
There have been some very "interesting" flags offered on eBay recently and you have to be careful. Some have been suspicious looking (see the recent threads here on "Japanese Flags in the WAF," "Tojo Flags," "Flag/Stroke Patterns," and others.) That will provide some information for you. As for one suspicious flag, it was sold along with some other unquestionably legitimate items in order to improve the "lot." I have also noticed a number of Japanese dealers (in Japan, not on eBay) offering for sale Good Luck Flags that look great as far as stroke patterns and slogans go, but the flags are signed by only a few people (lots of names written by few people.) Some of these dealers consistently have for sale 2,3, or 4 flags week after week. After awhile many of them appear to be the same looking and I can't believe they are all vintage. On an individual basis they look good in the pictures I see, however. I have also noticed some dealers giving misleading descriptions as to where their items are coming from.
If you want a signed rayed flag (army or navy,) those are quite rare. You can see a very nice one posted here on the thread "Japanese flags in the WAF." It belongs to Paul G and is top notch. I have seen signed ones offered for sale on eBay that are not WW2 vintage. Some I have seen are outright fakes, while others are authentic but were made as post-War commemoratives. I own one that was signed and given to some Marines who were co-operating with the Japanese Defense Forces very post-War. This type of flag (fake and real) just does not appear much for sale. That might change in the near future.
All of this is to say, you have to be knowledgeable and careful about what you buy. In addition, I am emphatically not casting any doubt on any particular person (please don't write or PM me about this,) just saying that the best buyer is the most informed. Ask more questions and we'll try and answer them for you. Mike

[BrianK]

It looks like I should start by buying something from a dealer. Is Collectors's Guild a good one? I've been in TR for about 5 years & still learning, although I think I know most of the danger areas. In the Japanese flag area I would have to rely on experts for the Japanese language. One thing on the flags that makes me suspicious are the drawings of mountains or tigers - I wonder if they are added post - war.

[MikeB]

Buying Japanese "rising sun" flags on ebay

Brian-
Artwork flags are highly collected and some are authentic while others are not. You might tend to think that the more simple "pictures" detailed onto flags would be more authentic than the more elaborate ones. That is not the case. The type of picture and its detail depended on who presented the flag and that person's or family's means as well as who those folks knew. Some art was placed by a family member or a friend. It might be simple or elaborate depending on the person's talent. I have been told that in some instances, a family might even pay someone to do the art. Some of the flags you will see tend to back that up, but we can probably never know that for sure. It is also true that some flags may have pictures put on them post-War to drive up the price. All things considering, you have to review your flag's construction, the characters, and the art and put it all together before you decide on authenticity. Flags good in every way may have art added post-War. If it is done sympathetically, it might be nearly impossible to tell when it was placed.
Here is a flag with an artwork tiger on it that is probably not good. I have had a couple of people review it and have had mixed feedback. The characters appear "good" in some places and not in others. In general, they make correct sense when translated, however. The mix of slogans appear a bit suspicious, however. This flag will appear in the "fake" section of my book. Take a look. Mike

[MikeB]

Buying Japanese "rising sun" flags on ebay

Brian-
Here is another flag with a mountain on it. The art is done in rather simple fashion and comes from a great flag, the third one I picked up when I was about twelve years old. Mike

[BrianK]

Thanks a lot

Thanks for the woderful & fast feedback. You are telling me just the sort of stuff I need to know. Looks like, just as in TR, you need a certain amount of handling the items to decide whether they are good or not.

[MikeB]

Brian-
Your last comment is about right. You need to look at a number of flags and build some consistency in your observations. I would also recommend reviewing some of the sites that Nick has provided here so that you can study the formation of Japanese characters. There are also books you can get on the subject at places like Barnes and Noble that take you through the stroke patterns of the ideograms, etc. If the strokes patterns don't jive, it is a pretty good bet that the hairs on your neck should begin to go up! In the end, one of the biggest Achilles heels we have as non-Japanese writers is being fooled by bad characters or confusing slogans on flags. On another note, some flags may be vintage Japanese National flags that have been "decorated" post-War. That is why I made note that I have begun to see sellers in Japan with "great looking/suspicious" flags. I think that it won't be long before more of this thing comes to the collector market. Mike

[Nick Komiya]

I have a lot of respect for the integrity of Peter at Collector's Guild, but when it comes to authenticating Japanese writing he has his limits, too. The beat up flag that sold was not a good one. Probably a non-Japanese copied a name from an addressed envelope and ended up adding "-sama" to ones own name, which is like calling yourself the honorable--. The rest of the names are a poor parody of Japanese writing. The other signed flags are OK, with the possible exception of one that he photographed from the reverse, therefore unreadable to me.

[Stinch]

Bill Shea always seems to have some flags to choose from.