Japanese cloth/net helmet on ebay

[peleliuexplorer]

There's one listed on ebay going for over $1000.00 last I looked. Looks to be a fake but not sure. Pretty expensive even if it is real. Any experts out there that can confirm or deny the authenticity??

-Eric

[camopara]

What would you consider a fair price for a helmet, helmet cover and net?

[IJANLFHELMETS]

Pretty expensive? Good 1st pattern IJA covers, are going for more than that. The last several good IJA rigs i.e. helmet/cover/net I've seen sold went for over $2k. I'll take every helmet/cover/net set I can get for a thousand bucks! I am not an expert like Jareth, or Eric, but the aforementioned rig on Ebay looks OK to me.

[helmetbuyers]

Here's a link to the helmet in the discussion...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3940&rd=1&rd=1

Anybody know who: "A.E. Hamilton" was ??

[ROBB]

Looks like a lovely set up to me though if I was going to bid I would ask for advice . I can see it making $2500 Rob

[GoForBroke]

Unless it's on a list which, has pretty much overnight become an outdated way of selling stuff, Japanese headgear related accessories are going for whatever people are willing to pay when sold on the open international retail market throug Ebay. It could be $1000 today or 2000 next week on a Tuesday night or 1800 Tuesday at 1pm. one more bidder at the top could push a price up $200-400 on an item. I find it really hard to put values on stuff in this situation. Prices/values a a bit unpredictable now. Ebay is now mainstream. All those people who had the money but never had connections or the time to sniff out stuff can shop effortlessly and buy pretty much whatever they want and build a collection overnight.

[Gunbunny]

Here's a link to the helmet in the discussion...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3940&rd=1&rd=1

Anybody know who: "A.E. Hamilton" was ??

A. E. Hamilton has been discussed on this forum before. He was a local (Seattle area) collector who passed away recently. He had a premier Japanese collection and I don't think you need to worry about his items being fake.

[Skipper Greenwade]

Unless it's on a list which, has pretty much overnight become an outdated way of selling stuff, Japanese headgear related accessories are going for whatever people are willing to pay when sold on the open international retail market throug Ebay. It could be $1000 today or 2000 next week on a Tuesday night or 1800 Tuesday at 1pm. one more bidder at the top could push a price up $200-400 on an item. I find it really hard to put values on stuff in this situation.

Prices/values a a bit unpredictable now. Ebay is now mainstream. All those people who had the money but never had connections or the time to sniff out stuff can shop effortlessly and buy pretty much whatever they want and build a collection overnight.

Isn't an auction the "purest" way to put a value on an item - truly a case of the buyer(s) setting the price?

As for being able to put tgether a collection "overnight"...that's a good thing - except that one must often make judgements re: originality, value and whether to buy based on a handful of photos.

My two cents' worth,
Skip

[peleliuexplorer]

I used to collect Japanese helmets years ago (1980's) and back then $50.00 was expensive. I remember when Eugene Sledge (author of "With the Old Breed on Peleliu and Okinawa") told me how he couldn't believe a Japanese helmet was worth $50.00. As he put it, those helmets were laying around everywhere on Peleliu and not desirable souvineers back then (too cumbersome to carry). Guess I've been out of the loop too long....no way I could afford any of this stuff now!

-Eric

[MilitaryCollect]

Japanese cloth/net helmet on ebay

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[GoForBroke]

Isn't an auction the "purest" way to put a value on an item - truly a case of the buyer(s) setting the price?

As for being able to put tgether a collection "overnight"...that's a good thing - except that one must often make judgements re: originality, value and whether to buy based on a handful of photos.

My two cents' worth,
Skip

Skip, An auction is defintely a much more accurate reflection of value on an international basis.

Your right, nothing necessarily wrong with building a collection overnight. A lot of guys appreciate the stuff and don't have the opportunity to find things and need auctions. The unfortunate thing is with auctions of this type, it often comes down to who has the money. Fair or unfair, I have no opinion. That's just the way it is.

1997 - 2005 was a big transition period for all collecting . It may be that in the 60s and 70s a helmet for $15-50 was a lot of money but the recent escalation in price happened so quickly that it's really shut a lot of serious collectors down, some of these people have always paid top dollar for something they want. The same thing happened with the price of homes in some areas of the country. Obviously, a home and a helmet are two different things. But not being able to purchase a needed item for a colllection has been painful for many. Anyway, just some observations . All collecting was heading in this direction, it just got there quicker because of the Internet. It's been an interesting ride.

Besides seeing a surge of items available for sale, information sharing, email, online research, digital photography, this forum - have all been great benefits made possible during this transition period. So I don't see any of what happened as bad. Reese

[cbuehler]

It is already at 3500 and I am appalled! This is double its reasonable value! This is not what this hobby is about.
I am sorry, but when I see this kind of money being paid out it, it sits real bad with me. This is just plain stupid. Money ruined TR material and I hope it doesnt ruin Japanese material as well. Makes me want out of the hobby. Sure, any body with more money than sense can have anything they want. Whats the point?

CB

[John Gordon]

This appears to be a nice original set and that others think the same. What I would like some views on is how can one determine that not only are the helmet, cover and net original to the period, they are original to each other and not just a later marriage of convenience. I dont see a shadow, marks etc to indicate this net was always on this helmet cover, Presumably the helmet cover could be matched with wear marks and rust spots on the helmet. I would be interested in the views of others. In some cases it looks apparent that the helmet, cover and net have never been seperated. I have an old, worn NLF helmet and cover, both with the same, period, original kanji markings. The rust spots also line up. Under war conditions, soldiers must have often changed gear, collected and added to their kit as the needs/opportunity arose.

I have been shown examples with German uniforms where original decorations, medals and the like (but not original to that piece) significantly add to the value and appeal of a particular item of uniform or helmet. I was trusting that this practice is not as prevalent with Japanese equipment. I am not raising this point to question the authenticity of the piece in this particular auction. I would appreciate views on judging originality of assembled pieces.

[Jareth]

I've held back from commenting for couple of reasons. First off, I do not like discussing on going auctions. I make the exception when the item is a fake or misrepresented in any way. I'll always respond to personal emails asking me for my help or an opinionSome other chat sights don't allow discussion of on going auctions period. I can understand both sides especially if it's an item that I've been watching & intend to bid on. I also don't like to broadcast or indirectly promote someones auctions. With that said I do want to comment on values. I disagree that ebay & other online auction ending bids are a guide to be used for pricing or setting values. I would consider averaging online as well as off line (gunshows/catologs/private sales) to come up with an approximate value. We all have seen some completely crazy ebay endings but then again I still continue to get many great items for extremely fair prices as well. I am concerned that it's getting harder for new, beginning collectors to get rarer items. Plenty of introductory items to collect but depending on ones income...We will damage our hobby, as it happened with 3rd reich collectibles if prices get/continue to be insane. I hate to come off wrong BUT I'm thankful for the super rare items I already own. I wouldn't & probally couldn't afford to buy them today. John in response to your question I'd say you can make a solid decision/judgement whether or not a helmet/cover & net have been togeather from wars end or put togeather post war. Once you've handled enough you can tell. Same with the componants seperately there are things to check & look for to judge if a net or cover is original. I feel it would be hard to say how much more, if at all, a helmet/cover/ & net were always togeather OR if an original helmet, original cover & net are all "married" post war? To me they'd be worth pretty much the same but that's just my personal opinion.

[John Gordon]

Jareth, thanks for your reply. I have come from a field of collecting antique clocks for many years. These can run into significant money that make militaria collecting look inexpensive. A common practice is to marry components movements, dials and cases so as to create a passable period item that looks correct. It takes a trained eye to detect such arrangements in a clock that could date to 1680. I agree with your concept of something feeling. looking right based on years of collecting experience. What I am wondering is whether folks feel that an original set - say a helmet, net, cover as in this case is of more value than the same items that someone has put together. I am assuming that the former would command a premium though this may not be a consensus view. If I am correct, then each layer, each additional component adds interest and value perhaps beyond its original, individual value? - Just a theory!