Japanese Naval Marine Helmet Cover

[MikeB]

Japanese Naval Marine Helmet Cover

Banzi-
I'm with you. One thing though is it seems that there are spontaneous buyers out there who "hit" the Japanese stuff when they hear it's popular or supposedly going up in value. A large segment of collectors seem to buy primarily on e-Bay. I have seen the prices on signed flags go up then down, stitch belts the same thing, medals were really hot for awhile then down a bit, and now helmet covers. What will be next? It does seem as though nice helmets are holding their values, however.
You guys who are able to see stuff at the shows, what are you seeing in terms of rarity, availability, quality, and prices in the items we are discussing? Mike

[Eric Doody]

Mike et al.,

The last real Navy helmet cover that I saw at a show was over a year ago and that cover was missing 100 % of the felt anchor. The last real Navy helmet cover that I saw at a show before that was probably three years ago. I have seen more real Navy helmet covers on ebay within the last year or so than all the shows that I have attended within the last three or so years. Bottom line is that real Navy helmet covers are hard to find and everybody seems wants one. Thus, if you are purchasing such a cover off of an internet auction where other folks will be bidding on the cover or if you are purchasing a cover from someone who knows what they have, then the cover is going to be expensive.

Eric

[MikeB]

Japanese Naval Marine Helmet Cover

Eric-
Judging from your comments and those of the others, I too would guess that we have not seen the high in terms of price yet on Naval helmet covers. Mike

[John Egger]

Helmets, Covers, and Opinions....

I've read with interest what's been written regarding this one poor lone helmet cover. I see the whole issue slightly differently....This is all about money ! Our hobby has made the "one giant leap" into the world of business. When we stop to consider the price this helmet cover went for who could disagree. The fact is, it is now more than ever really worth the effort for some enterprising person to start working over those fake helmet covers....at two grand do any of us think they won't be lining up to do it ! A few do it now for less. I can see the covers sunning themselves on the roof of a house in Calif. to get that tropical look. (There is one CA collector who does this as I'm sure some of you know.) Because we love our hobby some of us buy with our hearts. We all better start buying with our heads too. As one former friend (until he screwed me over on a deal) said to me when he got caught "Whats the big deal, it's business". And so it is. Consider that when someone gets taken at a show with a repro all we hear is "I hope he gets his money back". And if he does that make everything right.....it's not. It's fraud & it's an indictiable crime and because this is our "hobby" all we worry about get our money back. We should be trying to put these jerks in jail. It's serious business and about to get more serious.
I disagree with the comment "the price the cover sold for is not it's true value". The price the cover sold for IS it's true value... now! I'd be shocked if any of us believes that every dealer who has a cover that saw this auction is saying "Well the cover sold for $2,000 but the true value is $800....so I'll sell mine for $800"......Raise your hand if you can see a dealer saying that. For that kind of money I'd bet a few will come out of the woodwork at the next big show and they won't be for $800. This wasn't one guy who bid the cover up....there were several who all bid above $1,000 which means these guys are still out there and willing to pay that kind of money to get a cover. And they are our competition. If we want to play we'll have to pay.
Whoever mentioned Shelton Yokomizo, thanks for remembering him. He was and will always remain one of my best friends.....but he always said "It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay" and pay we all will now. For those of us who have covers (and got them when $200 & $300 for a cover seemed like alot) I know the value of my covers just shot up based upon this auction....."Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" and I really don't know that something mint is always worth more or better then something used. That cover was salty to say the least (but it had a great unit marking on the label for those who noticed.) I have an army cover that still has the manufactures paper label on the rear seam......now thats mint ! But is it worth more than any of my used covers????? What I do know is that that well worn used cover sold for $2,100 and right now it's the most expensive cover I've heard of. And the buyer has bragging rights......he can say "I won and look what I got". Who can argue.....he went where the rest of us wouldn't or couldn't go (but I bet a few wish they could) Perhaps in a few months some of us will wish we had......stay tuned, it's going to get interesting.

[Jareth]

The Sheldon referanced is a collector in Florida. Mint will ALWAYS ( except green navy seamans caps & common unissued mint uniforms!) be worth more irregardless of personal preferances. I collect examples of both salty ( gotta love that character!) issued items as well as mint examples of the same. I know which is worth more & would sell quicker. Most of us agree the last cover on ebay wasn't worth the end price & less than a hand full of collectors would of gone over $1500. much less $2200. Off ebay, privately offered I doubt it would sell for the low. The big issue with high ebay prices is that sellers use that as a way of pricing. Be patient & you'll get what your looking for at a fair price.

[MikeB]

Japanese Naval Marine Helmet Cover

I have to agree with John (see my comments #'s 9 & 12.) I also have to agree with Jareth too (in most instances he's right.) People will almost always pay more for mint, but not always. It seems that helmet covers are rare enough to command ridiculous prices even in lower grades. As John says, the price is the price is the price, is whatever they sell for at that moment! As the value goes up, some will not want to spend the big bucks for the poorer condition items and will hold off buying. Some dealer wanting to make a sale, might see this as the market slowing and perhaps take a little less (even if his cover is in better condition,) to put the green in his pocket. That goes to Jareth's point of the lower cost cover if you just wait. But again, these items being as rare as they are will probably continue to command higher prices even in the lower conditions. I think the high prices will bring more to market and then those too will all be gone. As Jareth said earlier, get a loan or refinance your house and pick them up while you can. Mike

[John Egger]

And in conclusion...

[B]"If you're an ant looking up at a skyscraper it's hard to imagine what the view looking down from the 50th floor would be". [B] It's all about prospective. As a collector and a sometimes seller my view is from both sides of the table. A view not often experienced by everyone. There are several issues here.....price, preference, & condition. Sometimes it's hard to seperate one from the other. But "personal preference" influnences the others more than the other way around. It's common sense....we buy & collect what we like otherwise we'd all be dealers. Buying & selling what makes the most money. And as said, while condition may be everything (to some) it is not the ONLY thing. If you have experienced a buyer pick up a mint item and put it down saying " It's too mint, I'm looking for something a little more used" then you might understand. There are collectors who look for bullet holed items. "NLF Bob" collects NLF items only and will take them in almost any condition if it's something he likes. Each of us has our own preference and focus and when we find what we are looking for this is what becomes important. And while price & condition may be a factor they are often not the over-riding factor. Hence, we have a helmet cover in rough condition selling for $2,100. This is not an aberration it's a fact & it happened ! And it will influence the pricing of helmet covers in the future regardless of what any of us think is a fair market value. Fair market value changes like the wind.....it's "what ever the market will bear !"
Whether we like it or not there are a handful of collectors out there who have shown they are willing to pay more and each of us must decide whether to compete. I remember when the price of helmet covers was $100 (army) and $150 (navy)....if these were the "going rate" how did the price go up to $300, $400, $800, and now $2,100? Because there were some who were willing to pay the price and the condition didn't matter.
Jareth made my point exactly when he writes "THE BIG ISSUE WITH HIGH EBAY PRICES IS THAT SELLERS USE THAT AS A WAY OF PRICING"....I couldn't have said it better myself.....in fact it's what I've been saying.
Let's move on to bigger & better things.....Eric where are the pictures of the army cap ?????

[Jareth]

I can see John's point as a collector/dealer. This can be lost on the majority of us collectors. Also we need to factor in supply & demand. Less covers out there (until divorce or death releases a new batch!) so collectors are willing to pay higher prices for lesser condition pieces. Fine with me as my covers have just become a better investment. I agree, lets move on. Eric where's your new post on the havelocks regarding private purchase/manufacturers marks etc.?

[MikeB]

Japanese Naval Marine Helmet Cover

Yep, I have to agree again with John. While my knowledge of uniform items is somewhere near the bottom tier (but I'm learning,) I know a little bit more about signed flags. I know guys who will only buy bloodied or battle damaged ones. Now, why would someone do that? There is a whole host of reasons, including condition. They want their flags to be in -hitty condition. They are either looking for that feel as John said, or they believe that they are purchasing an authentic one based on how it looks as opposed to what it says (they often don't know what it says.) Condition is not always the final word, but it often is pretty close. Now, maybe I can find some more NLF helmets for you guys to check out!!! Mike