ODD Japanese Navy Helmet Cover Insignia

[Bobby R.]

I would like to present an odd Japanese Navy helmet cover insignia.The left hand image shows a small, oval shaped two-piece anchor. For comparison, on the right is a more or less typical two-piece anchor example. Note how the smaller one is different in shape. The material background oval is a much finer piece of wool not like the rougher wool of the right hand example. In addition, the yellow anchor is a finer wool as well. One must not and should not equate finer materials with officer issue without supporting evidence. The helmet it came with was named to an enlisted man. The inside of the cover is like a standard one. If I recall, there is a single box stamp on the inside of the cover and no, the anchor insignia is not sewn thru the cover. Any one else own or seen one of these variations? Any thoughts from the community? Thanks.

[Jareth]

Helmet

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[WalterB]

Those are some impressive covers and nets!! Sorry, I don't have the answer to your question, but please post some more pictures of those!

[MikeB]

ODD Japanese Navy Helmet Cover Insignia

Hi Bobby-
Sorry, I have not seen this other type in question. Nearly all those I have seen/owned are indeed of the rougher variety. I am thinking much earlier issue, but do you have any ideas as to how much earlier? Mike

[Bobby R.]

ODD Japanese Navy Helmet Cover

Hi Bobby-
Sorry, I have not seen this other type in question. Nearly all those I have seen/owned are indeed of the rougher variety. I am thinking much earlier issue, but do you have any ideas as to how much earlier? Mike

I tend to agree Mike B, my thought that it was earlier is based on recollection of some early naval rates being oblong as well. If I recall, the earliest dated cover I own/owned was dated 1939 or 1940 and it was the rougher variety. I don't think this odd cover had a date but I'll check. When I get the chance I will try to post some pics of other style Japanese Navy helmet cover insignia and/or inside cover box stampings.

[MikeB]

ODD Japanese Navy Helmet Cover Insignia

Awesome Bobby! I would appreciate that. I also have another question for you regarding your earlier thread on the painted naval helmets. If you know, what is the history on these really different painted varieties? Were these individualized paint schemes or did they follow a specific unit accepted pattern? I wondered if they were done with the same intent as the army helmets with the red painted star, or those units with the skull and cross bones? Sorry for the vague quiry, I simply have never seen these..... Mike

[Eric Doody]

Bobby R.,

Thanks for sharing the photos of your Navy helmet covers with us.

As for your question about whether or not anyone has seen a similar cover & insignia to that as shown above on the left, the answer is yes, I believe I have seen such a similar cover & insignia before. (I think the Collectors Guild had a similar cover & insignia at one point in time.)

Insofar as the insignia on the cover on the left, my opinion is that this insignia is a later insignia than the insignia that is on the cover on the right (I will explain my reasoning below) OR that the insignia on the cover on the left is a manufacturer's variation.

Both covers pictured above are, what I will refer to as, first pattern Navy helmet covers. First pattern Navy helmet covers where typically equipped with a two-piece insignia comprised of a yellow or orange-yellow anchor on a green wool oval backing while later Navy helmet covers, which I will refer to as second pattern Navy helmet covers, were typically equipped with a machine woven yellow anchor on a green cotton oval backing. (There is also later war second pattern Navy helmet cover variation with a yellow anchor and green oval backing bevo insignia.)

Prior to seeing the firt pattern Navy helmet cover insignia variation on the cover on the left, I was aware of two other first pattern Navy helmet cover insignia variations, one with a smaller orange-yellow anchor on darker colored wool oval backing similar to the insignia on the cover on the right and one with a larger yellow anchor on a lighter colored wool oval backing. I am not sure which of these two insignia variations (i.e., the smaller orange-yellow anchor on darker colored wool oval backing or the larger yellow anchor on lighter colored oval backing insignia) came first.

Since the insignia on the cover on the left appears to be of better quality than the insignia on the cover on the right, and the insignia on the cover on the left more closely resembles the machine woven insignia found on second pattern Navy helmet covers, I am of the opinion that the cover on the left came after the cover on the right (or that the insignia on the cover on the left is just a manufacturer's variation).

Hope this helps.

Eric

[Jareth]

Eric, I couldn't agree with you more! Simply a manufacturers variation. Next to impossible to place it's date amongst overall cover production but I lean towards your opinion. I also recognize this cover as being from The Collectors Guild (photo still up) & suspect cover has changed hands a few times since then.

[Bobby R.]

Navy Cover Helmet Insignia

Thanks guys for the input re: the unusual insignia! Without a large data base of examples that have documented evidence of when they were produced it would be hard to pinpoint early or late. Could very well be a mfg'ers variation as I'm sure there were many companys making them. I checked other Navy covers and found within the rough wool background variety of 2 piece covers there were at least 4 different variations (anchor size, background material, etc.) I examined another cover, ex-Collectors Guild, of these smaller, oval shaped examples and it was the exact style of insignia presented earlier. I compared the box stamps inside as well and they were from the same mfg. Unfortunately they were too faded to find a date but the characters looked roughly the same. Hopefully, other collectors have examples with clearer markings and can share them as well.
The basic Navy Helmet cover styles appear to me to be the 2 piece style (wool) w/variations, the embroidered style, similar to field cap anchors (but not exactly the same), and the ever elusive, rare bevo style.
Over the years of collecting, I have heard of a cover with a bevo officers insignia (anchor and wreath) existing (don't know if it's good or bad).
Has any one ever seen a cover with a yellow on black insignia (like some green field caps have) or black on white insignia on a helmet cover? Would be yet another cool variation!
This forum is great for the exchange of information on whats out there. Keep up the good work and let's have everyone contribute. Thanks guys!

[Jareth]

Bobby, great covers! Just the kind of condition I like.

[John Egger]

Naval Helmet Covers

Eric,
I'll throw this into the mix.....there are three basic types of known naval insignia on helmet covers with variations. To me the period of these insignia generally seem to correspond with the type of insignia being placed on combat caps. The insignia appears to change as advances in manufacturing made them easier, simpler and more economical to make. Please note that this occurred at about the same period naval sleeve insignia changed from felt two piece insignia to bevo/woven. I don't believe this was coincidence. It's a matter of economics and war. I haven't seen anyone offer to show a late war "shinney" type bevo helmet cover insignia. I've owned one and seen another of these. There is also the very late war cover that has never had any insignia or label stamps. (I believe that I showed this one to you from my collection.) It was a vet pick up so I know where it came from.
Not to mention, the photo that has been published in several books of the dead Japanese naval officer (?) laying in the surf on Saipan. On his helmet cover is a naval midshipman's visor hat insignia. (Woven gold anchor on black oval) Go figure ! I believe that somewhere out there is still another variation that none of us has seen......and I hope I'm the one that gets it !

[Dean Brock]

John,
Great to see ya here.

[John Egger]

John,
Great to see ya here.

Thanks Dean !

[MikeB]

Odd Japanese Navy Helmet Cover Insignia

Hi Bobby-

Thanks for the most recent pictures of the helmet covers. Too bad that you cannot see the dates placed in the boxes! Does anyone else out there have examples with the date filled in? Mike

[Eric Doody]

John,

It is good to have you on board!

Your collecting experience and knowledge on Japanese militaria are a welcome addition to the forum.

I guess the one thing I can say about collecting Japanese militaria is that one never stops learning.

Eric

Eric,
I'll throw this into the mix.....there are three basic types of known naval insignia on helmet covers with variations. To me the period of these insignia generally seem to correspond with the type of insignia being placed on combat caps. The insignia appears to change as advances in manufacturing made them easier, simpler and more economical to make. Please note that this occurred at about the same period naval sleeve insignia changed from felt two piece insignia to bevo/woven. I don't believe this was coincidence. It's a matter of economics and war. I haven't seen anyone offer to show a late war "shinney" type bevo helmet cover insignia. I've owned one and seen another of these. There is also the very late war cover that has never had any insignia or label stamps. (I believe that I showed this one to you from my collection.) It was a vet pick up so I know where it came from.
Not to mention, the photo that has been published in several books of the dead Japanese naval officer (?) laying in the surf on Saipan. On his helmet cover is a naval midshipman's visor hat insignia. (Woven gold anchor on black oval) Go figure ! I believe that somewhere out there is still another variation that none of us has seen......and I hope I'm the one that gets it !