Japanese Sword

[The Dragon]

Hello,

I don't know anything about swords and I was wondering if I could get some help on this. I was told it was WW II.

Thank you

[BruceP]

From the pics so far, it appears to be a Type 95 Japanese NCO sword (gunto). By the handle wrap style, it should have a serial number under 10,000 on the other side, and likely has the stacked cannon-ball stamp of the Kokura arsenal.

Can you provide pictures of the serial number and stamps on the copper collar of the handle? Also a good picture of the blade tip?

I say "appears" because there are good reproductions out there. Seeing the things I've asked for helps to identify the real vs fake.

[The Dragon]

I'll will try and get more pictures of what you asked for. Thank you.

[The Dragon]

Here are some more photograph's.

[BruceP]

Ok, yes, perfectly legit. Very early model of the aluminum handle. Made for the Nagoya Army Arsenal (little stamp) and supervised by the Kokura Arsenla (stacked cannon balls). The copper collar is so worn I cannot make out the shop stamp that would be to the left of them both.

You can read about them
Here: http://ohmura-study.net/957.html

here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/japane...d-info-228172/

and here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/japane...-gunto-676112/

[zook]

Does the serial number on the top of the scabbard match the one you picture on the blade?
Hey Bruce - the saya has that odd green color (to my eyes)....like the kind one sees on many of the copper NCO swords.

[BruceP]

Hey Bruce - the saya has that odd green color (to my eyes)....like the kind one sees on many of the copper NCO swords.

Yes, I see what you mean. This whole gunto is called a "transitional model" by the 95 experts (Stegel, Shamsy). Like you pointed out, the saya is similar or the same as the last version of the coppers (I JUST learned the copper-handled versions had a scabbard drag!), and the tsuka has the wrap design like a real cloth-wrapped tsuka, where the wrap starts on one side and on the other is crossed. They quickly modified the look to make both sides uniform and symetrical.

You can read about this here:
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/japane...unto-676112-5/

[The Dragon]

Thank you for the feed back and the links Good to know it is original too.

Collector wise are these swords popular and sought after ? Is the sword is self common or hard to find ?

[STEGEL]

This whole gunto is called a "transitional model" by the 95 experts (Stegel, Shamsy)

Sorry i have never made this claim, Bruce. I only know of one example without serial numbers which to me suggests cadet or dress usage only, not army.
Without further examples, and i haven't come across any in over 20yrs, i don't think you can lend credence to this 'transitional' theory.
In fact evidence exists to the contrary.

Hi all,
Dragon, the sword you have is the very first run(1000-1500 made) of the 'GIFU' sub-contractor for the Nagoya Arsenal. The Gifu logo stamp is not there, but the 'Na' inspection stamp is along with the Kokura stacked cannonballs. Prior to this, only SUYA made this model for the Tokyo 1st Arsenal under Kokura Administration.

This first run is where we see the first examples of the 'Ko' stamp being used.
It was placed on the Fuchi with the other stamps, and/or on the throat of the scabbard, with the serial numbers there.
Dragon, could you please show us a picture of the scabbard throat please.

Also could you give us a photo of the 'screw' in the middle of the handle...both sides, it appears to be damaged??

Now for those who are interested, i'll try to give a summary of the Aluminium handles in chronological order, as they appeared.

The first Aluminium handles were exact castings of the copper model, made by SUYA. They had issues with the newly required mekugi screw being added to secure the handle, and SUYA then did a run of the new 'symetrical' ito pattern handles to overcome this problem.

Nagoya Arsenal then came 'online' with Type 95 production, and Gifu implemented its own 'fix' to the mekugi screw problem by having the ito pattern altered at the screw position.
The picture you show above, doesn't show an Early 'Gifu' handle, but it can be seen on one of the links you provided Bruce.

IIjima was the next to start production, it first used the same early handles as SUYA and then began using the newer 'asymetrical' pattern that Suya used.
Gifu re-ran its early handle again with two more production runs and by Serial number ~30k it, along with all 'early' handles were no longer used.
Iijima then produced it's own 'symetrical' pattern with a change in the menuki and used it till end of production.

Total of 4 Aluminium handle patterns were produced - 2 Early (Suya & Gifu) and 2 Late (Suya & Iijima) patterns.

Probably as clear as mud at the moment, but i hope this helps your understanding.

[STEGEL]

removed -double post

[BruceP]

Thanks, Stegel! I mind-melded this issue with your tsuba discussion!

[STEGEL]

No Problem Bruce, it's all good!
It happened to me also..........

Re-checked my info and i need to amend one thing i said above:

No 'Early' Asymmetrical handles were used after Serial number 28k
Gifu actually had two runs, one i mentioned below 20k range, but forgot the other of about approx 1000 swords ending around the 27400 mark.
The next time Gifu produced was at the 35700 mark but it used the new Symmetrical pattern that Suya originally came up with.

I've ammended my original post to reflect this, sorry for that.

[STEGEL]

This first run is where we see the first examples of the 'Ko' stamp being used.
It was placed on the Fuchi with the other stamps, and/or on the throat of the scabbard, with the serial numbers there.

Just for my curiosity, Dragon, could you please show us a picture of the scabbard throat please, and any tiny stamps on the drag comb of the scabbard.

Also could you give us a photo of the 'screw' in the middle of the handle...both sides, it appears to be damaged??

[The Dragon]

Thank you for all the help but I do not have possession of the sword.