Just bought from Boslys Finish pilots badge opinions please !!!

[WW1wingman]

Hello all,
I have just acquired this Finish pilots badge.I would like to know what peoples opinions are as i was concerned that there were not two bolt fittings to rear. I may be getting paranoid !! but if its wrong i want to post it back. If anyone knows Warren Carrols email or any other notable expert who wouldnt mind emailing me there opinion that would be cool.
I personally hope its just a late war issue.
Thanks for everyones help and advice !!
my email is stephenjfrench@msn.com
cheers
Steve

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178513&stc=1


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178515&stc=1

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178530&stc=1

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178529&stc=1

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178527&stc=1

[jani_tiainen]

Pictured original I had some time ago;

Note! Your center is not connected with two rivets as you see in my picture. I have seen similar as yours few times but never in Finland - and in here among the collectors with tens of attributed pilot badges yours is considered as fake made somewhere outside Finland.

I am sorry about that.

Jani

[WW1wingman]

any experts out there !!!

Hi thanks Jani,
Still need further opinions especially any recognised experts in the field.
This is required by Bosleys who will only recinde the sale if i have infomation confirming its a copy from two recognised experts.
Why do i think this is going to be difficult !!
Steve

they still believe its genuine so keep those opinions comming in .if anyone can email warren carrols email address that would be a great help .

[jani_tiainen]

Hi thanks Jani,
Still need further opinions especially any recognised experts in the field.
This is required by Bosleys who will only recinde the sale if i have infomation confirming its a copy from two recognised experts.
Why do i think this is going to be difficult !!
Steve

they still believe its genuine so keep those opinions comming in .if anyone can email warren carrols email address that would be a great help .

I know the owners of the two biggest Finnish Air Force badges collections in Finland (and in world) and some very skilled collectors of worldwide aviation, so If you can not find the experts I can get you as many as Bosleys want.

Do you know Tod Rathbone? http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/

Try him and say hello from me.

Cheers,
Jani

[Hans N]

I am no expert on these, don´t like it. The "missing" rivets gives me the big chill, sorry

[WW1wingman]

thanks so far !!!

i have emailed Tod !! thanks jani ! still think iam gona be struggling to get a refund if this is wrong. The sad thing i have bought lots off them over the years and recommende them,just puts a dampner on it a bit if this turns out to be 100% wrong .If its genuine then great i just dont like wasting money on junk.
well iam waiting to hear from the propriator.so we will see .Bosleys gaurentee everything.but it also states in the catalogue that they require two mutally recognised experts opinions before recinding the sale UK based !! they may waver that we will see...not good !!

regards
steve

[François SAEZ]

Hi thanks Jani,
Still need further opinions especially any recognised experts in the field.
This is required by Bosleys who will only recinde the sale if i have infomation confirming its a copy from two recognised experts.
Why do i think this is going to be difficult !!
Steve
they still believe its genuine so keep those opinions comming in .if anyone can email warren carrols email address that would be a great help .

?????????????????????????????????? Who are the two recognized experts?


Jani is the expert in the field - Listening from/to him avoid mistake with Finish items

[WW1wingman]

..the story goes on ..

Boslys have been very amicable and have agreed to relist it with illustration if iam still not happy .If an expert agrees its fake then i get a refund ...

By alaccounts in wings of WW2 by Huff it states that late in the war these badges were not revitted any one got Huffs book ???
Steve

[Gene]

They're relisting it for you? So if it doesn't sell, you're screwed? And François asked a good question: which two experts, specifically, are they looking to hear from?

[WW1wingman]

next episode please...

I have contacted Detlev Niemann,Ulric of England,Jamie Cross and Tod Rathbone.

If i get reasonable responses from them hopefully i get a refund.
yes and as for being screwed ...it seems that iam being held by the short and curlies on this one.If i cant get whome they mutually agree as experts then i have no option except to relist with an illustration.not as good as a direct refund but its better than nothing.If it turns out its correct iam very happy if not ..and yes the clouds are looming theni can only push it so far..
nightmare !!
steve

[Gene]

Is "Diet Nievin" actually Detlev Niemann?

[Allan H.]

I have contacted Diet Nievin,Ulric of England,Jamie Cross and Tod Rathbone.

If i get reasonable responses from them hopefully i get a refund.
yes and as for being screwed ...it seems that iam being held by the short and curlies on this one.If i cant get whome they mutually agree as experts then i have no option except to relist with an illustration.not as good as a direct refund but its better than nothing.If it turns out its correct iam very happy if not ..and yes the clouds are looming theni can only push it so far..
nightmare !!
steve

I've forwarded your request to Warren Carrol as he is a friend of mine, but also contacted another friend who is a rather advanced wing collector. This is what he had to say about the wing (my additions are in brackets).....
"...they [Finnish Pilot Badges] are EXOTICALLY rare due to the size of the Air force, etc. My intial impression is negative on it. Wish I could get a better look at the enamel as the view I see of it appears to be pretty good - the rest of the badge, in General, appears to be pretty poor quality - seems to be synthetically aged - thin stamping. Is the locking nut missing or was it just removed for photos? A missing locking nut would be a bad sign as I believe the repros have an erroneous maker mark on them. I'm no expert on these - Warren [Carrol] has probably at least seen a real one - I can't say anything conclusively - BUT - I wouldn't buy it!"

I am not going to name my source without warning him that i am going to quote him first, but suffice it to say that I trust his judgement implicitly.
I'll post Warren's response when I get it.
Hope this helps.
Allan

[WW1wingman]

More pics !!! thanks Allan!!

Hi,
I have pictured a close up of the enamel and of the retaining nut which is present.
No makers marks .
thanks again !
Steve


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178591&stc=1

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178592&stc=1

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d=178593&stc=1

[ROBB]

Bosleys in my experience are rude and unhelpful , hope you get your money back ,best thing to do is start shouting and raising your voice a little ,ask to speak to the chief auctioneer ,ask them how they know the badge is real ask them who their experts are . If they are not careful they will get a reputation ,good luck Rob

[jani_tiainen]

Hello,

One more thing - Never ever in my life I have seen such a screw nut in Finnish badges...

In general; Finnish Pilot badges are two different known models; White metal based and silver based with hallmarks. The more common - white metal type does not have any mark or engraving as issued.

The silver one should have long Finnish silver hallmarks...

What comes to Huff's book, I have it and I'll check what he says about non riveted badges.

Attached picture of similar reproduction offered to me at MAX 2003. See the Screw nut

Jani