What is this Adrian helmet???

[Theodor]

Hi, today got this Adrian helmet, French M15. But seems it saw service in some other army, not the French, maybe the Russian Imperial? Or Serbia? Or????
The paint seems original, because is the same allover and inside are present the original ink stams - A /size/ and JAPY /manufacturer?/. Has an extraordinary liner of black Falt pads with white stitching, probably not original, but for sure has been in that helmet for some time at least. The chinstrap is not lather, but made of cloth. Could it be original, or some kind of breadbag strap was applied? It is also obviously on the helmet since at least a long time.
So, from which army is it? What's that JAPY?

[Theodor]

On the front, at the area of the badge, you can see a ractangular shadow. The seller, before called me, put there a Japanese sticker /white field with red circle/, because of the JAPY marking he thought it is Japanese! Fortunately he called me before causing further damage and I easily removed the sticker. There is only some glue left, but aftershave or some other spirit will easily get rid of it.
And here the guts:

[Peter_Suciu]

There is no outline of a badge on the front? The Russians certainly used this color paint but it could also be Serbian. The liner I don't recognize but it is likely that it is a post-WWI replacement. Many nations used Adrians after WWI including Turkey. So this helmet could have been used by anyone.

Go buy a Russian badge and claim that's how you found it. You could probably make a fortune.

[Theodor]

Hahaha an excellent idea, maybe can even make a story about the White Army officer, who fled to Bulgaria after 1918 /indeed many did/ and how I got the helmet from his grandson
Yes, it was going to be much easier to identify, but unfortunately the badge has left absolutely no trace. As for the liner, maybe not original, but has been there for very long, there is plenty of dust and dead bugs, also the liner has left a shade on the helmet paint.
I have a Serbian Adrian, that has been repainted green. But inside is still seen the original rusty-brownish color, which is very different than this. So IMHO Russia, Greece and Turkey are possibilities for this one...
Just to add, Turkey maybe not, because the Turkish were reissued, as far as I know, while this one still has original paint /I think so because of the factory markings, also there is no trace of other paint on it/. So this maybe has been a delivery straight to someone's army, Russia or Greece? BTW Romania also had greenish Adrians, as far as I've heard, but were they originally produced green, or blue ones, later repainted?

[Peter_Suciu]

Here is my Romanian Adrian. It is blue and there is no sign of any previous paint.

Ironically I bought this helmet from a seller who has a shop five minutes from my grandfather's house in the Detroit suburbs. My grandfather's father was in the Romanian army during the Balkan Wars (hope our great grandfathers never met on the battlefield) and was in the Romanian army until he left the country around 1916. A lot of Romanians settled in Michigan and Ohio in the 1920s so I tend to think this helmet came over then but who knows. I don't remember the shop being there when I lived with my grandparents briefly in 1991 but the seller claimed to have had the helmet for 20 years. Would be really funny to think I drove by his antique shop only a few thousand times and then bought the helmet 13 years later!

[Theodor]

A beautiful helmet, Peter! One in my dream list I have read that the original delivery to Romania was blue, like this one, but later, with the advance of the war, the Romainian military repainted some of the helmets green for better stealth.
Yes, that's quite an irony and you're really lucky that not a helmet collector passed nearbay, if it has been there for 13 years!
So far I have not heard of relatives participating on the Balka war. One of the grand-grandfathers fought in the WWI, but unfortunately this short sentence is almost all known!
I'll keep on the research and will write here if find more about that helmet /if, of course, the answers don't appear exactly from this forum/.

[45Auto]

For what it's worth, the name Japy is well known to watch and clock collectors. This French Company specialized in early mass production of clocks, watches and watch parts in the early 1800's. Maybe a relative was still in businss making metal goods in 1915?


Best regards,
Greg

[odysseios]

Japy is a french manufacturer of WWI Adrians. This would can say us that the paint is an original "moutarde"... I think the helmet is from french civil defense.

go http://salg71.free.fr/index.html to propose your helmet to the webmaster

rgds

O.

[Jean-Loup]

Why civil defense? Moutard color was for colonial troops and for the legion étrangère as far as I know. The dark blue liner pads look like french WW1 style. The french used old stoks of uniforms to make parts of the interior, and this dark blue was the color of the french great coat in 1914, that was abandoned in 1915. Maybe the liner is strange because the helmet was meant to be worn with some kind of traditional african/asian hat. Just theorizing here...
JL

[Theodor]

Hi,

The French colonial troops spahi, zouaves and the sharpshooters had mustard color helmets with special badge - RF over a crescent moon. But these helmets had a differnt, mustard color, while this is something like pea green.

The Serbian army had M15 Adrians in similar colors. However the Serbian color is dfferent, has a brownish-rusty "taste".

So far I think it is an Adrian from the Russian Imperial army. They had helmets in this color. Even more, Peter Suciu directed me to a site, where they are selling an original Russian Adrian badge, and the color is almost exactly the same. /saying almost, because can judge 100% sure only if have the badge in hand/.

There is still another possibility - Greek WWI Adrian. I do not know what exactly the color of the scarce Greek Adrians was, but have heard it was something brownish green.

All these helmets can be found in Bulgaria, because in the WWI the Bulgarian army fought with several /in fact, almost all/ armies that used Adrians - French, Italian, Russian, Serbian, Greek, Romanian...

Forgot to add about the liner pads. They are made of black felt matherial, stuffed, seems made especially for this use and also have been for a very long time in that helmet /some moth holes, dust, lots of dead bugs and also slight coloring from the pads to where they contact the helmet paint/.

Here are the unknown Adrian /suspected Russian/, compared to the Serbian Adrian. The Serbian is repainted outside, but inside has the original color excellent preserved /the camera changes the color a little, in reality the Serbian has a more rusty color/:

[Theodor]

That's the zouaves/spahi/sharpshooters helmet, a pity hat has remained mostly bare metal. But shuold be mustard /the original color is seen at several collectr sites/.

[odysseios]

Civil defense because with that canvas chinstrap and liner, and without badge it don't seems to be certainly a military issue... Sure if you put in it a crescent badge, a leather chinstrap and liner this can be a colonial troops helmet, but like we actually see in the Theodor picture for me is a civil issue...


O.

[Theodor]

The fact that it has no badge - from 10 Adrians to see on the local market, only 2 or 3 would have badge, the rest would have lost it long ago, sometimes even no outline of it.

Of course, it can be a civil defense as well.

P.S. New information: This helmet had a badge! I just got an idea - looked under the front liner pad, and inside the helmet there are barely visible rust lines between the badge holes. That's from the flat prongs of the badge, that held it to the helmet. So, originally it did have a badge, it is military issue.

The liner may be post-WWI civil or fireman issue. The chinstrap may be a wartime breadbag strap or some postwar rework... Who knows... I wish these lids could talk