Reserve NCO Hat Kürassier-Regiment Graf Gessler (Rheinisches) Nr. 8 (I thinK)

[DaveG]

This is the first Imperial hat I can recall owning. Pre-war Imperial German uniforms are incredibly confusing to decipher for me. I believe this to be associated with Kürassier Regiment Nr. 8. To me this is a particularly attractive shade of green, certainly set off even more against the white. This hat has a few very trivial moth tracks and the crown is dirty from storage but in all other respects it appears to be unworn since the paper size label is still attached. I make the maker to be "Paul Ellinger (or Illinger) Duisburg). Am I correct that this is an NCO hat versus an officer's hat? I'm here to be educated so any comments will be greatly appreciated. Nine photographs to follow.

Dave

[DaveG]

Two more pictures. Five more to follow.

[DaveG]

Two more. Three to follow.

[DaveG]

Two more. One to follow.

[DaveG]

Last one.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Hi Dave,

your cockades show a mix: the top one is officer, the lower one nco.

As for the green colour on the cap it seems to me to be too dark green for KR8 - for the correct colour see pic.

[DaveG]

Then what might it be?

Dave

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Then what might it be?

Dave

I do not know - I am leaning towards it not being a military Imperial cap but made to look like it by possibly adding Imperial cockades to make it look like a KR8 cap (as you probably know KR caps are one of the most highly priced imperial schirmmuetzen - therefore this is being done).

But let us see what others say.

[Robert Shoaf]

I agree; the shade of green is far too dark for KR8, and I would think it would also fade to an even lighter color over time.

Bob Shoaf

[DaveG]

If it's been tampered with it was pre-1970.

Dave

[DaveG]

School cap?

[kaiserwilhelm2]

School cap?

school/university caps have a different shape. I am thinking post-Imperial and maybe something like police.

[DaveG]

For what it's worth neither insignia go through the lining of the hat.

[DaveG]

I'm still trying to figure out what the color combination for this hat represents. I was looking through Michael Kelso's book Under Arms for the Kaiser (page 217) and the piping on the three examples he pictures is much darker than the piping on the uniform on the facing page. I compared my hat in bright sunlight with the straps and the color is about the same as the examples in his book. I'm not trying to make this hat conform to Ku 8, but I've had no luck on the WAF or GHW with anyone hazarding a guess (other than police as someone helpfully suggested above). Surely this is a color combination that is known. Any additional help or comments appreciated.

Dave

[Alan Wilson]

Dave, as you suggest the only possible color combo on your cap is to KR8. I do believe the green color is too dark to be a pre-war example. I would suggest that the cap is a post-war KR8 veteran organization cap. There is or was an KR8 pre-war cap on Weitze which shows a green color as the picture in my book, p216.

Mike