Breadbag field modification?

[mietek]

Hello
I just bought two ww1 German breadbags. One is perfect condition, just without one button, but also without markings. Fortunately I have many original buttons to sew in.

Second one, it is a problem for me. I hope you could answer to my questions:

1) What means markings “R88” and “U.A.XIII 1916”, additionally there is written something. I can read only last line (of three) – “Bad-Sachsa” – town name. Two other maybe it’s soldier’s name and street?

2) Breadbag was modified. Middle strap with hook was removed, both side straps for main belt were shortened, buttons were removed and straps were sewn as loops – size exactly for the German main belt. Is it common modification? I think after shortening straps breadbag was hanging more stabile than on long one. What do you think about it?

Best Regards<O</O
<O</O
mietek

[Chip M]

Breadbag Modifications

Hello mietek,

Your markings could mean 88.Inf.Rgt., which was in the XVIII Armee Korps.
The other mark is the Bekleidungsamt marking, which is actually "B.A.XIII 1916". If you have read this correctly, it is the marking of the clothing depot of the XIII (Württemberg) army corps. This does not match the regimental mark, so either you are reading one of them incorrectly or the bag was reissued.

These bags were not normally altered during the war, so I am assuming that these changes were made in the postwar period or by someone who captured/picked it up and decided to customize it.

Regards,
Chip

[mietek]

Hello Chip Minx.

Thank you very much!!!
You are right, in my post "V" is missing from the number, should be "BA XVIII 1916".
It suit to XVIII Armee Korps. Is it correct number?

How do you think, equipement conversion was not allowed or just not common?

How was with markings? All issued breadbags were marked?
What is with my second one, without stamps, was it issued or probably not?


Best Regards

mietek

[Chip M]

Breadbag

mietek,

It is good to know that the regimental markings match the corps markings. I thought that perhaps you were reading it incorrectly.

Equipment modification was frowned upon and not really necessary, as least in this case. There was no reason to take the time to do it. Of course, field modifications were done, but it is not seen with regularity.

These bags were often manufacturer marked on the back of the middle strap. If your other one has this strap, look for a date. It could be that perhaps this bag was made very late and never made it to a depot. I my experience, unit markings on breadbags tended to be less important as the war neared its end.

I have sent you a private message regarding a related subject.

Regards,
Chip

[mietek]

Hi Chip.

Unfortunately my second breadbag is without markings.
So it could be production from the last part of the war.

Best Regards

mietek

PS What should be markings on field gear of Stabsbatterie Feldartilerie-Regiment 223? Here is the reason why I ask about it:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=48619

PS2 "88.Inf.Rgt." means same as 88 Infantry Division?

[Chip M]

Breadbag Markings

mietek,

Normally, a regimental marking would be a rectangle with, in your case, most likely "223.A.R." stamped within it. The 88 Infantry Regiment and 88.Infantry Divsion are, of course, not the same thing. The October 1917 Index to German Forces in the Field shows the 223.FAR in the "East" without giving any divisonal affiliation. In the Histories of 251 Divisions of the German Army, the 223.FAR is gone from the 1918 list of units with the 88.Division. In von Stein's Übersicht über die Truppen und Einrichtungen des deutschen Heeres im Weltkrieg, the 223.FAR is shown with the 223.Inf.Division and then with the 224.Inf.Division on 28.10.18. Just as an added note, the 224.I.D. replaced the 88.I.D. in the line in mid-October 1918 (on the Western Front) and remained there (to the south of Dampvitoux) until the armistice.

Regards,
Chip

[Frosch]

In von Stein's Übersicht über die Truppen und Einrichtungen des deutschen Heeres im Weltkrieg, the 223.FAR is shown with the 223.Inf.Division and then with the 224.Inf.Division on 28.10.18. Just as an added note, the 224.I.D. replaced the 88.I.D. in the line in mid-October 1918 (on the Western Front) and remained there (to the south of Dampvitoux) until the armistice.

Chip,

Could you provide any more details on that reference work, please?

Many thanks in advance,

David

[mietek]

Hi Chip.

Thank you very much.
Unfortunately in Poland I don't have access to good information sources about German during ww1, both equipment and fight on East Front.

mietek

[Chip M]

Chip,

Could you provide any more details on that reference work, please?

Many thanks in advance,

David

David,

This material that I mentioned is the unpublished research of Major Hans-Rudolf von Stein. You may know of him from his renowned collection or from his many years of scholarly work for the Zeitschrift für Heereskunde and Feldgrau. He and Oberst a.D. Hans Kling produced a series of articles over several decades, beginning in 1929, that attempted to explain the details of the formation and organization of the Kaiser's army during WWI. Though the published information is available to the public, there was much information, which was researched in the archives, compiled, but never printed, due to a lack of time and space. This is the information that I got from the Major back in the 1980s. It covers all of the other units that their published works never got around to, like the artillery, flak and associated units, Nachrichtentruppen, Fliegertruppen, usw.

Regards,
Chip