Auction pick-ups: Austrian hechtgrau tunic and artillery waffenrock

[K Bandow]

Yesterday, my wife and I went to a uniform auction in St Louis where they were auctioning off the long time collection of one man. The Austrian tunic was 1 of 3 Austrian-Hungarian, but the only one being military. The artillery waffenrock was one of 2, sadly I was overbid on the other. I have very little knowledge on Austrian items, so any information is appreciated. The price was very fair, so I was happy to bid!

Thanks for any help!

[Chip M]

What color is the Austrian tunic? It looks field gray in your photos. Hechtgrau is a blue gray somewhat similar to horizon blue. If this is more greenish than feldgrau, it could be a captured Italian tunic. The Austrian captured a lot of Italian tunics and used them. The pocket flaps look added on, just to give the tunic the look of an Austrian tunic. Italian enlisted tunics normally did not have breast pockets. The lining looks more like an Italian lining.

Chip

[K Bandow]

What color is the Austrian tunic? It looks field gray in your photos. Hechtgrau is a blue gray somewhat similar to horizon blue. If this is more greenish than feldgrau, it could be a captured Italian tunic. The Austrian captured a lot of Italian tunics and used them. The pocket flaps look added on, just to give the tunic the look of an Austrian tunic. Italian enlisted tunics normally did not have breast pockets. The lining looks more like an Italian lining.

Chip

Chip,

I think you are right, it is more of a feldgrau with a bit of a greenish tint. Shows how much I know! I think I'll have to do some research into Italian tunics and do comparisons.

Thank you for your response!

Karl

[Brian Calkins]

Karl,
If your tunic were originally Italian, They would have also had to add on the stand and fall collar. I think it is an original Austrian tailor made tunic from around late 1915 to early 1916. The fabric of the pockets and collar seem to match the wool of the rest of the piece, so I think they were all made together. False breast pockets were not uncommon for the Austrians at the time.

Chip is right....the lining has an Italian feel about it, but that may be explained in other ways.

Interesting to note that the right shoulder strap has the extra piece of cloth to hold the cloth shoulder role. This kept a soldiers rifle strap from slipping off his shoulder.

So we might assume this was a private purchase tunic for an enlisted infantryman...not an officer. This is also not uncommon for this army and period.

[flik]

Huh, this one is very unusual. You dont see this kind of full lining on privat purchase (or GI) uniforms very often. The colour is feldgrau. Its for shure not an issue a-h uniform nor a tipical privat purchase one. It does have a chance dough, I would go for 1917-1918.
Cant say if its converted italian since I am not an xpert on these, but I would ask some of the italian members for opinion. Check for the sewn button holes and two slates on the back of the skirt. The buttons are not tipical a-h also, butt you can see all sorts sometimes so I wouldnt worry about that too much.

[Brian Calkins]

Hmmmm...interesting points.

I agree it is certainly not a typical private purchase lining, but I don't think it's Italian...although I have to say even the stamped number looks italian.

As for 1917/18, they were not using the collar patches at that time. Now it could indeed be of that period and the patches could have been added later by a veteran or a costume house. In fact, we must consider that this may actually be a post war made tunic for a veteran or member of a paramilitary group. They were also using this style again in the 1930's.

[Brian Calkins]

Karl,
You may find from all these posts that there is no definitive answer to exactly what this tunic is....

The Austro-Hungarian army had uniform regulations for everything....just like any other army. However, since a large percentage of uniforms were private purchase (all oficers and as many as 20 percent of all enlisted men bought their own uniforms from tailors) there was some wiggle room in what was allowed.

I know less about uniforms that I do about caps, but I can tell you that with caps, there are an endless amount of minor variations between various makers.

[flik]

Yes, you have to have a very open mind when looking at a-h uniforms. There are enless small variations. Even GI were not that universal during the war. In 1914, you could pick up any GI uniform and it would be more or less the same almost down to the last stich. During the war that changed and the inspectors at the depos accepted almost anything that resembled an a-h uniform. Many GI uniforms were also modified by soldiers to a more slimer cutt... In fact, I can say that in the last 15+ yeares I saw perhaps one or two totaly unmodefied tunics.
As for the post war veteran and 1930 era... I think this is not the case with this uniform. These can be tricky, especially the officer ones, but there are some clues what to look for. Some, unfortunately will always fall into the "gray area", at least without the rock solid provenance.
The collar patches were indeed removed after 1916, but this was ignored quite often. I cant say if the ones on this uniform are period since this in many cases is more or less "a feeling" but they could be.
About the stamps... I dont know, but I cant see anything looking like an a-h stamps

[jürgen]

Imo this is Not a wartime piece .
I would say its One of the tunics which where along on eBay the Last year from the lambert Hofer coustume Store
Sorry but this One is nothing what a serious kuk collector wants

[flik]

Yeh, it could be, aldough this one looks better cutt then the ones on e bay. I also quite like the cloth (at least on the photos). Perhaps a better photo of the button holes?
Did anybody download some of the uniforms from e bay? The more I look at the lining the more I dont like it...
In the end Jurgen is probably right, if you want an unquestinable GI original enlisted or NCO jacket, be prepared to spend some serious euros.